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Bob Green comparator review

DngBat7

Silver $$ Contributor
Just got it in the other day. Sorted about 150, 6.5 Berger’s Gotta say. Very impressed. Even with Berger’s, there was a pretty substantial range of .002 And I had about 3 that were wildly off. Very misshaped. Took several readings and the bullets were off .010 from one side to the other. That could explain flyers in my mind. Even the several that were .002 apart is a pretty significant seating depth change. Don’t know how I have lived without this tool. Very glad I picked this gauge up
 
I don't disagree at all but that .002 difference is .002 deeper in the case, not into the lands. Imo, that is very insignificant.
The shape of the bullet nose is set by the die shape and varies very little...this is the same area the seater stem contacts and close in terms of where the lands engage the bullet. Lube can change bullet shape very slightly but I've never been convinced that bullet length or weight, both within reason, are good indicators of a good bullet. Jmho.
 
I don't disagree at all but that .002 difference is .002 deeper in the case, not into the lands. Imo, that is very insignificant.
The shape of the bullet nose is set by the die shape and varies very little...this is the same area the seater stem contacts and close in terms of where the lands engage the bullet. Lube can change bullet shape very slightly but I've never been convinced that bullet length or weight, both within reason, are good indicators of a good bullet. Jmho.
It’s .002 from where the seater stem contacts the bullets and where the ogive touches the lands. This comparator does not measure length or bto
 
Just got it in the other day. Sorted about 150, 6.5 Berger’s Gotta say. Very impressed. Even with Berger’s, there was a pretty substantial range of .002 And I had about 3 that were wildly off. Very misshaped. Took several readings and the bullets were off .010 from one side to the other. That could explain flyers in my mind. Even the several that were .002 apart is a pretty significant seating depth change. Don’t know how I have lived without this tool. Very glad I picked this gauge up
I have regarded this tool as a well kept secret. What were you thinking? LOL
 
I’m of the opinion that what can be important is using the Bob Green comparator to find the few bullets that have a significant variance. As you have now already measured all the bullets, you might as well sort them vs. just putting them back in the box.
Ben
 
Great tool, but that's just IMHO.

If you can invent a tool reloaders can use to measure something, your going to sell a bunch of them. :D
 
Ran a quick test this morning in regard to this. I used 10 Berger 6mm 105 vld bullets for the test. The test was done using a 6mm wilson seater stem in the lathe chuck and a redding 6.5 stem in the tail stock. The 6.5 stem nicely centered the base of the boat tail and made it very consistent. I left the tail stock loose and just lightly pushed the bullet into the 6mm stem. Leaving the tail stock loose gave consistent pressure on the bullet base. The bullet was simply held in place between two seater stems, the larger one at the bullet base to insure each bullet was centered the same way. It actually worked very well. Using a Mit .0001 test indicator set just behind the 6mm seater stem, the needle never moved more than .0002. I did the test again at .060 further back on the bullet and got identical results.

I'm not making any claims other than what I just stated and I'm not familiar with the aforementioned tool but It does make me wonder how it registers on the bullet that would give vastly different results than the test I just described. I'll let you draw your own conclusions as I can not explain such a large difference nor can I explain how two bullets from the same point die could be that much different over such a small area.

I'm in no way saying that the tool is good or bad, just that the small sample that I checked were very consistent at both just behind the stem and at .060 behind it.
 
Ran a quick test this morning in regard to this. I used 10 Berger 6mm 105 vld bullets for the test. The test was done using a 6mm wilson seater stem in the lathe chuck and a redding 6.5 stem in the tail stock. The 6.5 stem nicely centered the base of the boat tail and made it very consistent. I left the tail stock loose and just lightly pushed the bullet into the 6mm stem. Leaving the tail stock loose gave consistent pressure on the bullet base. The bullet was simply held in place between two seater stems, the larger one at the bullet base to insure each bullet was centered the same way. It actually worked very well. Using a Mit .0001 test indicator set just behind the 6mm seater stem, the needle never moved more than .0002. I did the test again at .060 further back on the bullet and got identical results.

I'm not making any claims other than what I just stated and I'm not familiar with the aforementioned tool but It does make me wonder how it registers on the bullet that would give vastly different results than the test I just described. I'll let you draw your own conclusions as I can not explain such a large difference nor can I explain how two bullets from the same point die could be that much different over such a small area.

I'm in no way saying that the tool is good or bad, just that the small sample that I checked were very consistent at both just behind the stem and at .060 behind it.

Mike - Bob Green's comparator tool effectively measures from the seating die contact point to the caliper insert contact point on the bullet ogive. In other words, it measures from where the seating die stem pushes the bullet in, to the point on the ogive where we actually measure seating depth. Sorting bullets with Bob's tool allows you to achieve extremely uniform seating depth without having to constantly adjust the seating die micrometer. That's all it does.

Measuring and sorting bullets by other dimensional aspects such as BTO, OAL, etc. certainly has plenty of fans. However, the reason(s) for for using those approaches is typically not to obtain uniform seating depth, rather they are used to generate a uniform amount of shank in the case neck, consistent OAL for pointing purposes, etc.

Bob's tool allows one to sort bullets based on the two closest contact points that are critical for uniform seating depth. The method you described above is going to measure bullet base to seater stem contact, or at least from the bottom of the bearing surface to the seater stem contact point. That means you are including extra regions of the bullet (i.e. bearing surface and/or boattail) in your measurement that are outside the seater die and caliper insert contact points that critical for uniform seating depth...regions that increase the chances for bullet length variance outside the critical region. Any time you include extra regions of the bullet in a measurement or sorting approach, you lessen the accuracy/precision of that measurement, or effectiveness of that approach. The method you described above may work just fine...unless there additional bullet length variance in the bearing surface and/or boattail region of the bullets being sorted.


Bullet%20Dimensions_zps8yv4t2fc.jpg
 
Mike - Bob Green's comparator tool effectively measures from the seating die contact point to the caliper insert contact point on the bullet ogive. In other words, it measures from where the seating die stem pushes the bullet in, to the point on the ogive where we actually measure seating depth. Sorting bullets with Bob's tool allows you to achieve extremely uniform seating depth without having to constantly adjust the seating die micrometer. That's all it does.

Measuring and sorting bullets by other dimensional aspects such as BTO, OAL, etc. certainly has plenty of fans. However, the reason(s) for for using those approaches is typically not to obtain uniform seating depth, rather they are used to generate a uniform amount of shank in the case neck, consistent OAL for pointing purposes, etc.

Bob's tool allows one to sort bullets based on the two closest contact points that are critical for uniform seating depth. The method you described above is going to measure bullet base to seater stem contact, or at least from the bottom of the bearing surface to the seater stem contact point. That means you are including extra regions of the bullet (i.e. bearing surface and/or boattail) in your measurement that are outside the seater die and caliper insert contact points that critical for uniform seating depth...regions that increase the chances for bullet length variance outside the critical region. Any time you include extra regions of the bullet in a measurement or sorting approach, you lessen the accuracy/precision of that measurement, or effectiveness of that approach. The method you described above may work just fine...unless there additional bullet length variance in the bearing surface and/or boattail region of the bullets being sorted.


Bullet%20Dimensions_zps8yv4t2fc.jpg
My setup did not consider overall length or bto..none of that. It was simply done at two points, at the end of the 6mm seater stem and again .060 behind it. The second seater stem was used to hold and center the bullet in a very consistent fashion. I tore the setup down but I should've taken a pic first. Just imagine a bullet held stationary between centers and an indicator set at two points along the stationary bullet. Now do this same thing for 10 bullets without changing the setup..just swap bullets.. That is all. I'm not knocking his or anyone's product. I just question how the two would give different results when I basically did exactly what I understand his tool to do, but I did it in a lathe and with a test indicator. My setup had to be very good or else my numbers would be the ones that were all over the place.

---to help clarify my setup....the bullet is horizontal and stationary held against the 6mm seater stem and the indicator is vertical with the tip against the side of the bullet..both right against the seater stem and then again at .060 further back along the bullet.

p.s.s--I will add this, that my method was only checking the "runout" on one side of the bullet. TIR would theoretically be double the amount I saw on the indicator. I got a MAX of .0002 over the 10 bullets....so tir may be about .0004. Now factor in that tiny variance over a say.. 1.5° leade angle and it may make more sense to see the numbers the op stated. Someone else will have to do the math. I'm too dumb and have to get back to work for now.:confused:
 
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I misunderstood the way you initially described the setup you used. From your second description, you are measuring very close to the same dimension as Bob's tool.
 
I misunderstood the way you initially described the setup you used. From your second description, you are measuring very close to the same dimension as Bob's tool.
Not a problem. I thought that may be the case. I just tried to clarify what I did a poor job of explaining the first time.
Maybe the geometry will explain how much difference the op gets vs what I measured.
Also, after the fact, I could have measured closer to the lead line or the actual ogive. Rather, I just set the indicator as close as possible to the seater stem, then backed the lathe crossed that the indicator was on, back .060 and measured the same 10 bullets at that point.
 
Ideally, whatever implement contacts the bullet closest to the bearing surface would be cut with the same reamer as used for the chamber, but that's not always feasible for everyone. Even without that, sorting bullets by a measurement taken as close as possible between the points on the bullet ogive that contact the seating die stem and that first encounter the rifling ought to take care of the vast majority of seating depth issues caused by bullet length variance in that region. I can imagine that such length variance is largely dependent on the manufacturer, bullet type, and specific Lot#. Some Lots may not need sorting based on that region at all.
 
The BGC provides a comparison of ogive radius across your range of bullets. This, qualifying them for anything dependent on ogive contact (seating, pointing, trimming).
 
Actually this tool also made me discover something else I was not expecting. Tho because the finding were consistent, it probably does not matter much, but after pointing bullets, it changed the shape by .002. In sure of you guys knew this already tho.
 
Has anyone taken the culled bullets from this process, and proved how "bad" they were on paper?

Bob's tool isn't really used by most people for culling. It's simply used to sort all the bullets into various seater stem contact to comparator insert contact length groups. There are no claims that any one sorting group is "better" than another in terms of precision, only that you will obtain more uniform seating depth without having to constantly fiddle with the die micrometer when using a single sorted group of bullets. It's like sorting bullets by BTO or OAL, no one length group is necessarily better than another, only different.
 
Actually this tool also made me discover something else I was not expecting. Tho because the finding were consistent, it probably does not matter much, but after pointing bullets, it changed the shape by .002. In sure of you guys knew this already tho.
Actually.. if you are changing the shape, you are over pointing. I would back off until the shape is unchanged. At least thats how I point.
 
Bob's tool isn't really used by most people for culling. It's simply used to sort all the bullets into various seater stem contact to comparator insert contact length groups. There are no claims that any one sorting group is "better" than another in terms of precision, only that you will obtain more uniform seating depth without having to constantly fiddle with the die micrometer when using a single sorted group of bullets. It's like sorting bullets by BTO or OAL, no one length group is necessarily better than another, only different.

Actual quot from Bob Green:With this device you are able to sort bullets into sub-lots, therefore keeping the loaded rounds seating depth very consistent in seating depth without constantly changing your bullet seater. The results have been outstanding. Shooters have cut their group sizes in half without flyers.
 
Actual quot from Bob Green:With this device you are able to sort bullets into sub-lots, therefore keeping the loaded rounds seating depth very consistent in seating depth without constantly changing your bullet seater. The results have been outstanding. Shooters have cut their group sizes in half without flyers.

Sort into groups, not cull...there is a big difference. And a single sorting group is not necessarily any better than another in terms of precision, exactly as I stated. Rather, as Bob pointed out, all the sorting groups may show more uniform seating depth and enhanced precision.
 
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