First Time Necking Down - Need Advice before continuing (6.5 Grendel to 6 Grendel via FL bushing)

[Winny94]

This is my first attempt at necking down a cartridge, and its not going well. Im trying to take Lapua 6.5 Grendel to 6mm Predator (6mmAR, 243LBC, 6mm Grendel - whatever you want to call it).

My setup:
Dies: Redding FL Type S for 6mmAR (w/ entire decapping rod/expander ball assembly removed)
Bushing: .268
Lube: Imperial Sizing Wax
Brass: Lapua 6.5 Grendel

The pictures can do a better explaining than I can, but there is a ridge, crimp, wave type deformation. I followed all of the directions from the guys that load for this round I thought, but obviously im missing something. The only thing ive found so far for a possible solution is adding a step bushing in the .25 cal range (maybe like a .279).

My technique is to chamfer the case mouth, lube the neck & body w/ the imperial, run the ram until it makes contact, slowly bring down, about halfway down I raise the ram, then bring down the full way (I tried 1 case w/o the stop and it didnt help)

Also, I tried setting the die to not bump the shoulder more than .0005" (my caliper rounds to the .0005). Would I be better off bumping the shoulder a full thou to ensure im getting the entire neck sized, or is my technique fine?

Thanks for any help

 

[nmkid]

I always skim turn Lapua cases first before downsizing and never go more than .010 per sizing step. For what it's worth, I also use the bushing with the lettering facing down. Are you setting the lockdown on the bushing so that it rattles ever so slightly when shaking the die?

 

[Pappy42]

Try sizing to .257 first, then go down to 6mm. Is this new brass or fired? If it fired, it may help to anneal.

 

[Winny94]

I always skim turn Lapua cases first before downsizing and never go more than .010 per sizing step. For what it's worth, I also use the bushing with the lettering facing down. Are you setting the lockdown on the bushing so that it rattles ever so slightly when shaking the die?

I have it set for about 1/16th turn loose - is that about where you have it?

 

[Winny94]

Try sizing to .257 first, then go down to 6mm. Is this new brass or fired? If it fired, it may help to anneal.

Yea, i think im going to pick up that .279 bushing and see if that helps.
This is new brass, so comes annealed from lapua

 

[ShootDots]

There are ways to neck down, then there is the BEST way to neck down. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/necking-down-6-5-47-to-22-47.3974066/#post-37463333
This thread will help you make the correct choice. PLEASE read reply #1 and #3.. It does not matter which cartridges you neck down>>>the "process" is the same....

 

[DJSBRS]

A bushing die will never size all the way down to the shoulder. It will work using a .279 bushing die first to taper it down to start with. However, you will need a 6 mm non bushing neck sizing die to size all the way down to the shoulder.

DJ

DJ's Brass Service
205-461-4680

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Just buy a 6br body die and do it in one step. Set the die where it just kisses the shoulder. This works for a no turn 6 Grendel, just fine.

edit...Ya know what? Cancel that! I have twi 6br body dies and they are different in the neck area! One works but the other is bigger...Just measured both with id mic and one is .2725ish and the other .279. That'll still get ya close but you'll need another step. I also have a Redding 6ppc comp seater that has a .272 neck id. That should do it either in one step or...it may be best to do it in two with the body and seater dies.

pss...I also have two ppc body dies that are .2745is. That should work but you'll need to neck down in it then again with your Grendel bushing die, with the bushing all the way down.

 

[DJSBRS]

Don't forget that there will be a huge donut inside at the neck shoulder junction after the above process and should be neck expanded and neck turned for proper clearance to chamber and not have a bullet tension issue.

DJ
DJ's Brass Service
205-461-4680

 

[Winny94]

For anyone following along, I added an in between bushing and gave it another go (actually, I borrowed 2 - .281, .274, .268), and it made a world of difference. No discernable false shoulder or donut, smooth neck walls, easy ram throw, etc. I'm so far pretty happy with how they turned out. OAL seems to have stayed in the 1.5195-1.5205 range. They chambered and ejected buttery smooth. Hoping to get a handful loaded and start testing charge weights this weekend.

 

[Quickoz]

I'd fireform before you start testing loads if it was me. Hell shoot a club match or two. That's what I'll be doing when I get my 6 Grendel.

 

[Winny94]

I'd fireform before you start testing loads if it was me. Hell shoot a club match or two. That's what I'll be doing when I get my 6 Grendel.

yea, im not planning on getting deep in load dev. until theyre all once fired, I was referring to finding an adequate charge weight just so I can fireform them. I have some leftover 107 SMKs, but there doesnt seem to be much data out there on them for this round. Ill probably start at 26, move up to 27 in .3 increment, then go down to .2 until I hit 28ish. I should find something in the 27.4-27.8 range that should suffice until they all get formed.

 

[msalm]

In necking down brass I’ve always had better luck with an appropriate FL or NS die...no bushing. For the 6 and 22 Grendel I’ve formed countless brass with two total dies, one each of Hornady 6 and 22 PPC sizing dies. They DO size smaller than needed due to the difference in neck thicknesses but they still work very well. After initial sizing/firing I go to a bushing die.

 

[Winny94]

In necking down brass I’ve always had better luck with an appropriate FL or NS die...no bushing. For the 6 and 22 Grendel I’ve formed countless brass with two total dies, one each of Hornady 6 and 22 PPC sizing dies. They DO size smaller than needed due to the difference in neck thicknesses but they still work very well. After initial sizing/firing I go to a bushing die.

What do you do for an expander during the initial sizing? These look and measure out fine, but they sure took awhile (which isn't a huge deal since they should last me a while, but I'm always up to find more effiencies)

 

[Quickoz]

I guess a PPC die would work for the neck size and could just use an expander mandrel to bring upto correct diameter. As I'm going to be running a PPC on same rifle, I'll already have the dies needed.

I actually cant wait to get my grendel going, all my mates have BRAs, BRX, etc. Hoping 6 Grendel will knock them around a bit.

 

[Richard Coody]

6 grendel ackley improved is the ticket. You can get 2850 out of 105's to 108's and if you push it a little 2900.

Use the false shoulder for fireforming. Even fireforming loads are very accurate.

Try 28 gr h4895 for fireforming and around 29 for fireformed loads

 

[msalm]

What do you do for an expander during the initial sizing? These look and measure out fine, but they sure took awhile (which isn't a huge deal since they should last me a while, but I'm always up to find more effiencies)

I'll put the expander in the final die, so when I go to 22 Grendel, the 6mm has no expander, the 22 ppc will. If just down to 6 Grendel I do use the expander, you'll feel it as the neck thickness is a little more so it will work the brass a bit more, but after the first firing I use a bushing die so the brass doesn't get overworked.

 

[Quickoz]

I was going to get a 6 Grinch reamer set but JGS wants a lot for them and gauges. Haha. Maybe when I get 2nd barrel for the Grendel.

 

[Richard Coody]

Yeap

That 220 russian case has been the parent case for some very accurate cartridges

The benchrest crowd call this one the 6mm grench
And the ar crowd call it the 6mm AR turbo 40 inproved

Both are remarkably accurate

 

[stroked96s10]

Alright so maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but where on earth do I find a set of "6mm ar" dies? I ordered a barrel and now I'm not sure how I'm going to load for it...