High expectations dashed

[magic mike]

I am currently working on a new project rifle which until yesterday I was quite excited about. For a few years now I have wanted a 6br so a short while back I finally bought one. My choice was a Savage 12 Benchrest. I am not a competition shooter, just a guy who enjoys punching holes in paper targets. Read a lot of good stuff about the inherent accuracy of the over the counter Savage rifles and my shooting buddy has a couple of them that shoot lights out so I thought I would give one a chance. Never had a Savage before but the ability to swap barrels and the availability of good quality hand lapped barrels was very appealing so I bought it.
Yesterday was the first chance I've had to get to a range that I could shoot out to 100 yards. I took four different loads with me to see how they printed. One of them was the load I used to print a five shot group at 50 yards that measured about 3/8" at my local indoor range. I proceeded to shoot six five shot groups using each load, some twice, and none of them grouped under two inches! This was a 72 degree day with zero wind. I packed up and left the range going over everything I could think of on my drive home that could have resulted in such lousy results. Once home I checked everything over and found no loose action screws or loose scope mounts etc. So, next thing was to grab my buddy's bore scope and look at the barrel. What I saw was enough to make me toss my tacos! This barrel is an absolute piece of junk! I looks like starring down at a railroad switch yard! Thers's not a smooth spot in it! It sucks!
If a company is going to sell a rifle as a "target" rifle why in the world would they put a junk barrel on it! The whole idea of a target rifle is to shoot the smallest groups possible. Raise the price $200 bucks and put a decent barrel on it! There is no damn excuse for this. My buddy has a Savage LRPV in 260 Rem and we scoped it and the barrel looks good. Not a match barrel but a pretty good looking barrel and the gun shoots great. I am really disappointed with Savage about this and it makes me wonder about their quality control. I say this because I contacted them about a couple of other issues I discovered when I got this rifle. One was the action screws were only engaging the action by two threads and the tiny 6-48 tapped holes for the scope rail required thread chasing before the screws would go in. The response I got was "OK". Boy, I feel better now!
I'm going to re-barrel this rifle with an after-market barrel and my guess is that it will shoot great. I see no reason to contact Savage about replacing it as I don't want another piece of crap barrel or the hassle of sending the gun back to them. I am going to send them some pictures of the bore and tell them what I think about it. What's right is right, and this ain't right.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Those same barrels that look awful shoot very good on every other savage. You just never know, but savage isnt a top shelf product anyway. If it was it would cost the same as a top shelf piece

 

[ShootDots]

Call Criterion Barrels. I have a friend who uses them extensively. He has never got one that did not shoot tiny little dots! They have them made for the Savage. You need to talk with them and make sure you get one that has been chambered with the correct reamer for what you want to do..

 

[Rsadams]

Do a proper break in and hit it with some JB before you give up , or just rebarrel it your choice...

 

[Terry]

I have 3 Savage 6 BR's. None of them have this problem. Sorry you did.

 

[muleman69]

Check out Criterion ,We have had good luck so far, very nice barrels

 

[magic mike]

Those same barrels that look awful shoot very good on every other savage. You just never know, but savage isnt a top shelf product anyway. If it was it would cost the same as a top shelf piece

Like I said, raise the price of the gun a couple hundred bucks and put a decent barrel on it. Anyone can buy one for $300/$400 so why not do it right to begin with.
I bought a new Remington 308 PSS a few years back and had the same problem. Took it to S@S and $1100 bucks later I had a rifle that would shoot. I guess it wasn't a top shelf product either. I understand that you cannot compare custom stuff to mass produced stuff but it doesn't excuse plain old poor quality.

Mike

 

[biggen0_8]

Krieger is making ready to go Savage barrels now.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They should come out with a new model that has close enough tolerances to put a decent trigger in it. They could double the price

 

[Terry]

I am currently working on a new project rifle which until yesterday I was quite excited about. For a few years now I have wanted a 6br so a short while back I finally bought one. My choice was a Savage 12 Benchrest. I am not a competition shooter, just a guy who enjoys punching holes in paper targets. Read a lot of good stuff about the inherent accuracy of the over the counter Savage rifles and my shooting buddy has a couple of them that shoot lights out so I thought I would give one a chance. Never had a Savage before but the ability to swap barrels and the availability of good quality hand lapped barrels was very appealing so I bought it.
Yesterday was the first chance I've had to get to a range that I could shoot out to 100 yards. I took four different loads with me to see how they printed. One of them was the load I used to print a five shot group at 50 yards that measured about 3/8" at my local indoor range. I proceeded to shoot six five shot groups using each load, some twice, and none of them grouped under two inches! This was a 72 degree day with zero wind. I packed up and left the range going over everything I could think of on my drive home that could have resulted in such lousy results. Once home I checked everything over and found no loose action screws or loose scope mounts etc. So, next thing was to grab my buddy's bore scope and look at the barrel. What I saw was enough to make me toss my tacos! This barrel is an absolute piece of junk! I looks like starring down at a railroad switch yard! Thers's not a smooth spot in it! It sucks!
If a company is going to sell a rifle as a "target" rifle why in the world would they put a junk barrel on it! The whole idea of a target rifle is to shoot the smallest groups possible. Raise the price $200 bucks and put a decent barrel on it! There is no damn excuse for this. My buddy has a Savage LRPV in 260 Rem and we scoped it and the barrel looks good. Not a match barrel but a pretty good looking barrel and the gun shoots great. I am really disappointed with Savage about this and it makes me wonder about their quality control. I say this because I contacted them about a couple of other issues I discovered when I got this rifle. One was the action screws were only engaging the action by two threads and the tiny 6-48 tapped holes for the scope rail required thread chasing before the screws would go in. The response I got was "OK". Boy, I feel better now!
I'm going to re-barrel this rifle with an after-market barrel and my guess is that it will shoot great. I see no reason to contact Savage about replacing it as I don't want another piece of crap barrel or the hassle of sending the gun back to them. I am going to send them some pictures of the bore and tell them what I think about it. What's right is right, and this ain't right.

Thanks,
Mike

What is the twist rate?

 

[DHuffman]

I've never had a heavy barrel Savage that wouldn't shoot small after a proper load workup and seating depth test at the range i intend to shoot.

 

[Evan]

It sounds like you're done with the rifle already, but there's a lot of guys here who would help you make sure no stone is left un-turned before you condemn it.

Just my opinion here: I think using a borescope in this situation was entirely misleading. All you did was validate for yourself what you had already decided about the rifle. You saw what you looked for: a crappy looking barrel. Crappy looking barrels frequently shoot really well and pristine looking barrels can shoot very poorly.

 

[Cloudrepair]

I got a used 308 once and looked at it with the owner and asked him what have you been shooting through it he said mostly one brand and some of those nickle plaited fed match bullets and I thought oh c%#p but bought it anyway because the price was right.
I couldnt get it to do better than 1.5 groups well I pulled the barrel thinking I'll put it on my wife's 30-06 and it will still get the deer and kick her less.
Took it to the range and it would shoot all touching with her action

 

[Earnhardt]

Krieger is making ready to go Savage barrels now.

Large and small shank?

 

[Mark W]

Like I said, raise the price of the gun a couple hundred bucks and put a decent barrel on it. Anyone can buy one for $300/$400 so why not do it right to begin with.
I bought a new Remington 308 PSS a few years back and had the same problem. Took it to S@S and $1100 bucks later I had a rifle that would shoot. I guess it wasn't a top shelf product either. I understand that you cannot compare custom stuff to mass produced stuff but it doesn't excuse plain old poor quality.

Mike

I would like to hear your response to post #7 before the quality bashing starts. If I took four random loads to the range and one of them were good I would load up on lottery tickets on the way home. Just saying.....

 

[Murray Brook]

@magic mike
I'm no expert by any means, but if it were my rifle I would give it a real good cleaning and pick an approiate bullet and powder and do a good ladder test. What do you really have to loose. One thing I have experienced is a hunting rifle that would not shoot for crap till appx 175 rounds then turned into one of the better rifles I own accuracy wise.JMO

 

[magic mike]

Thank you SPJ. All of your targets pictured look like mine at 100 yards!

The loads I put through the rifle were as follows;

Lapua brass
105gr ELD M
29.5 gr Varget
CCi 450
0.010 jump

Lapua brass
105gr ELD M
30.0 gr Varget
CCI 450
0.010 jump

Lapua brass
105gr Hornady BTHP
29.2 Gr H4895
CCI 450
0.015 jump
This was the best load at 100 yards.

Lapua brass
105gr Hornady BTHP
29.5 gr H4895
CCI 450
0.015 jump

I believe any of these would be 1 MOA loads at 100 yards and could be tweaked a little one way or the other to dial in some small groups. I had to start somewhere so listed above is where I started.
I have shot this rifle out to 900 yards with less than stellar results. Frankly my DPMS AR-15 Bull 20 kicked its but at 400 yards. So something is not right.

I'm not new to working up loads and my intention is not to bash anything or anyone. I have no intention of giving up on this rifle and I will continue on until I arrive at an acceptable result based on my abilities and knowledge. I am sure that it is very possible that a really bad looking bore could shoot great and a really great looking one could shoot bad. If you start out with a good looking bore and it won't shoot despite all your efforts you can feel pretty comfortable that it's a dud for some unknown reason. If you start out with a bore that looks like forty miles of bad road (which mine does) and you expect it to shoot well and for some reason it does, that's pure luck. I will call James at Northland tomorrow and order a new barrel for this gun. My problem is once again, if you advertise the rifle as a precision piece of equipment the component parts should reflect that statement. The barrel on this gun does not.

From the Savage website;

"Demand precision that's up to any challenge. The Model 12 Benchrest delivers with the Target AccuTrigger™, which can be adjusted from 6 ounces to 2.5 pounds, and a full-profile stainless steel barrel that's button rifled and perfectly balanced with the wood laminate stock. The rifle also offers an oversized bolt handle and single-shot, dual-port Target Action."

Yes, I realize that the above is a subjective statement but it is what it is.

Respectfully submitted,
Mike

 

[DHuffman]

That's hardly a load work up in my opinion. 2 different bullets with 2 different charge weights and 2 different seating depths.

Pick one bullet and one powder and seat it .010 in and cover 1.5 - 2 grains of powder in .2 increments and I bet you'll find a good load. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but you didn't put in the work and give the rifle a sporting chance before you started bashing it.

 

[DHuffman]

Hear ya Bro”

I would try this prior to ordering a barrel
View attachment 1096575
Varget powder
CCI br4 primers
107 smk
CBTO seating or a little jump

5 shots and report back

Jim

Mine shot Varget @ 29.5 with a BR 4 and a 105 HVLD with that in mind I'd start at 29.2 and I got bolt lift at 30.3

 

[NWnewguy]

I have a bunch of Savages that don't get much use anymore, but I still feel a bit of fondness for, so I thought I would share my experience. I bought one of the LRPV 6br's with the HS Prec. stock and accu-trigger. It's a dual port and fit and finish is standard factory rifle. I tested a few different Hornady V-max bullets, as coyote, prairie dog and ground squirrel were what I was planning on shooting once I had worked up a load on paper. With the twist rate of this barrel which if I recall is 1-10, as long as I shot 87gr or less, it was consistent at just below a 1/2" with no real effort. With a little more effort on the reloading side (this was before I had an auto-trickler) and more concentration at the bench it would do almost consistent .3" groups. I felt like I had gotten pretty fortunate as it shot well and when I cleaned it, the barrel felt very smooth. Then I got a bore scope. When I first took a look down the barrel with a scope, I thought they must have rifled it with an impact drill. It looked rough all over. Lots of chatter, but it was fairly consistently spaced. I would have never guessed if I had seen that before I shot the first shot that it would be a sub 1/2 MOA barrel. I wouldn't give up on yours yet. Break it in and let the speeds come up. Use a little JBs bore paste and smooth it out a tad.

One more story about a rifle that wouldn't shoot. I was friends with a fine fellow named Russ Haydon who built some fairly decent benchrest rifles. One weekend he finished and delivered a nice Bat action, Kreiger barreled 222 rifle to a fellow and we went to the range in Tacoma to give it a test run. The gentleman that had paid his hard earned cash took the first test drive and after three 5 shots groups and three cleanings, the rifle was grouping 1&1/2"-2"at a 100 yards. People don't generally expect to pay $3500 to get a rifle that groups like a Walmart special Henry lever gun. About this time Russ started sweating in the balmy 52 degree Pac North West weather and suggested that I give it a try. I sat down and fired an effortless first group (for me) in the mid 2's. Russ finally took a breath and realized what the problem was and then he ran off another group that was in the mid 2's. Take what you will out of that story, but I have found that a lot of the time, if I'm not shooting well it's because I can't get my mind out of the way.