Does anyone have first hand experience using Tubbs FF bullets?

[jepp2]

I am considering trying the Tubbs Final Finish fire lapping bullet kit, something I never thought I would. And I would like to know if anyone else has, and what your experience and results were.

Background:
I have a Rem Sendero (early version with SS fluted barrel) that I have struggled with finding acceptable accuracy, and it coppers up like no factory barrel I have ever seen. Looking at the throat through my Hawkeye, it doesn't show that much use. I have a new Krieger barrel on order for it, so I am willing to give the fire lapping a try. Probably not much to lose other than the price of the kit and components.

Specifics: 25-06 caliber, powders tried: RL 19, IMR 4350, IMR 4831, H4831 SC bullets tried: Sierra 100 gr SBT, Nosler 100 gr BTH, Nosler 110 Accutip, and most recently I tried Sierra 100 gr MK which yielded the most promising groups to date. I have used these powders and bullets in two other Rem 25-06 factory barrel rifles with great results.

 

[fatelvis]

I used a 6mm FF kit on a brand new RPR in 6 Creedmore. The throat was nonexistent in the rifle, and I wanted to push the lands forward, in order to approach more regular specs. It did indeed move the lands forward, and also smoothed out the bore noticeably. If it affected accuracy, I really couldn’t tell.

 

[jepp2]

I used a 6mm FF kit on a brand new RPR in 6 Creedmore.

Did you use all 5 grits of bullets provided? And thanks for the input!

 

[dcali]

I have no experience, but typically people seem to get mixed results from factory barrels that haven’t been working well. Some report solid improvement, some don’t. Generally, people report that it causes a fair amount of erosion/abrasion of the throat.

I don’t know of anyone who would try it on a custom, because that would be insane.

Unless you’re just curious, I’d skip it and wait for the Krieger to show up.

 

[Twoboxer]

I used the system on two rifles.

50+ yr old Rem 700 BDL in 30-06 that shot well enough cold for the hunting rifle it used to be, but began to open up quickly from the bench. No change after treatment, but there were problems beyond the barrel itself. Kept and trued the action, added a 26" Krieger, bedded the assembly in a new stock, and it became a very good shooter.

2yr old Sako 85 Varmint in 223 which I thought would be a pretty good shooter, but could never get groups consistently under 1 moa. No change in performance. Performance improved dramatically after using an FX120i instead of a Chargemaster for loads. Not stating cause and effect for certain, just the sequence of events.

So I can verify neither improvement nor harm.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Last resort. I've seen it kill barrels and I've seen it help. About 60/40 to the bad. It does seem to reduce fouling to some degree but so does a proper break in procedure. One shot and clean, either way.

A common misconception is than the bullet friction has much to do with break in. I'd guess that 98% of normal break in procedures are dependent almost entirely on flame temp. In the case of the Tubb kit, abrasive is intentionally added to the bullets in the kit. I still bet that the flame is doing 80% of the work done.

 

[DirtySteve]

I had a Winchester Stealth that would could with copper with in 10 shots? I used all the bullets in the kit and fired them according to the directions. In my opinion it worked great. It greatly reduced fouling and along longer strings before accuracy took a dump.

 

[oley55]

I guess it all depends on what you are after and what you intend to shoot. I have had exceptional results with rifles (and revolvers) shooting lead bullets . I now have two 24" lever action rifles in 357 and 44 magnum and the polish and shine of these barrels after firing a regime of tubbs is amazing. I can shoot (appropriately sized of course) bullets at well over any and all recommended loads with zero leading issues.

on the other hand I have an AR15 barrel which severely fouls with 15 rounds of jacketed bullets that tubbs never helped.

 

[Tcross]

I could "ditto" DirtySteves post except I had a Winchester 70 Featherweight in .308. Did a bunch of work to it. Bedded, floated the barrel, trigger work, but it didn't want to consistently shoot MOA. And fouled like nobody's business. Tubbs FF kit was last resort. Followed the directions to a tee and the gun started shooting and cleaning was a breeze. So I would say it worked for this gun. But if I wasn't at last resort status, I admit it would be hard to send those course bullets down a barrel.

 

[fatelvis]

Did you use all 5 grits of bullets provided? And thanks for the input!

Yes, I used all grits (the complete kit), and achieved borderline Expert/Master classification last year in Mid range F-class, with that rifle.

 

[Rob01]

Here is my experience with Tubb FF and TMS.

http://teamblaster.net/reviews/TubbFFTMS.pdf

 

[hambone1971]

Some of you may have already read the Tubb Final Finish review I wrote back in 2001 on other sites but I’m putting an abridged version here as well as adding some information on another product I have been
suing recently, Tubb TMS rounds.

Hi Rob, I thought it was going to be a bad article at first. Kept looking for the suing part of Tubbs. Glad it may be only a typo instead. I've used the stuff and found it worked good for me as well. HB

 

[Rob01]

LOL Sorry. No suing. Just a guy who fat fingers a keyboard.

Actually just used the TMS rounds on a AR .308 from PSA and it did well to cut down on fouling and the rifle is pretty accurate for what it is.

 

[msinc]

Very good friend of mine has a 243 Vanguard that would copper up severely after only a few shots. The throat was roughly machined. He got the kit and tried it. Followed instructions to the letter and shot all of the bullets. It definitely helped stop the copper fouling. Borescope inspection revealed that the throat was definitely improved. Accuracy did improve, but not enough to make the rifle viable. It went from shooting 2" plus groups at 100 off a rest all the way down to 1 1/4"-1 1/2".
My personal opinion....a bad barrel is a bad barrel and fix-in-a-can is not the answer. To me it's like stuffing banana peels into the rear axle when the pinion bearings are shot. Of course, I can afford to say this, I have my own lathe. If you are looking to make it a little better than okay, but, if like most of us, you want a rifle that puts bullets in the same hole or at the very least touching each other then forget it.

 

[STS]

It's probably a moot point considering that you have a new barrel ordered for the rifle, but your factory barrel would likely benefit from being slugged and then hand lapped. There are a few people out there that have the ability to do that and I've never seen one that it didn't improve significantly providing that the barrel didn't have dimensional issues that would make it unfeasible to do the procedure. The down side of the equation is that the $$ spent in labor is likely not to be worth the end result. But, it can be done and done well.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I am considering trying the Tubbs Final Finish fire lapping bullet kit, something I never thought I would. And I would like to know if anyone else has, and what your experience and results were.

Background:
I have a Rem Sendero (early version with SS fluted barrel) that I have struggled with finding acceptable accuracy, and it coppers up like no factory barrel I have ever seen. Looking at the throat through my Hawkeye, it doesn't show that much use. I have a new Krieger barrel on order for it, so I am willing to give the fire lapping a try. Probably not much to lose other than the price of the kit and components.

Specifics: 25-06 caliber, powders tried: RL 19, IMR 4350, IMR 4831, H4831 SC bullets tried: Sierra 100 gr SBT, Nosler 100 gr BTH, Nosler 110 Accutip, and most recently I tried Sierra 100 gr MK which yielded the most promising groups to date. I have used these powders and bullets in two other Rem 25-06 factory barrel rifles with great results.

If you have a Hawkeye, and a sense of where in the barrel problems are coming from, I'd try JB paste before the FF system.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I hand lap all my barrels before taking the first shot down the tube. I use three different grits of compound while frequently adding compound and oil. 300 strokes with each grit. That's 150 strokes in and out. The result is a super smooth barrel and allows for easy and fast cleaning. If it improve accuracy, who knows? It is anybody's guess.

 

[jepp2]

I'd try JB paste before the FF system

Thanks for the suggestion, I have already done that.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Thanks for the suggestion, I have already done that.

Ok. I've entertained the FF system, just never done it.
I have a friend, we were talking cheaper cuts of meat on the grill. I asked of he ever used meat tenderizer, he said heck no, "does that stuff know when to quit" was his response.
I feel the same about this system, why subject the whole barrel to it when one or two spots are the culprit.
Good luck in your endeavor!

 

[jepp2]

Good luck in your endeavor!

Thanks! I have decided to just set the rifle aside until the new barrel arrives. I have just been so happy with the premium barrels I have, that I will enjoy the rifle after the change. Still plenty of time to work up a load prior to antelope and deer seasons.