Service Rifle Question

[ChadCollins]

For 600yds. What’s the go to bullet?
Sierra 77’s or 80’s?

Or some other?????

Thanks in advance!
Chad

 

[riflewoman]

77s will allow you to shoot one load...however if you’re going to optimize loads most guys shoot 68-70 at 200, 77s at 300 and 80 beyond 300. No one shoots 223 at 1000 except the Palma guys.

 

[DR_2297]

You can use 77s all the way and do fine. This is a good idea if you are still learning .

 

[ChadCollins]

You can use 77s all the way and do fine. This is a good idea if you are still learning .

I’m seasoned with my 6BR at 600 and do pretty well in prone. I’m new to Service Rifle though.

 

[DR_2297]

I’m seasoned with my 6BR at 600 and do pretty well in prone. I’m new to Service Rifle though.

Well in that case 80s for 600 are the norm. I personally shoot 80.5 and 82 Berger’s @ 6. 80 SMK is fine.

 

[ChadCollins]

Well in that case 80s for 600 are the norm. I personally shoot 80.5 and 82 Berger’s @ 6. 80 SMK is fine.

Cool. I’m a fan of Berger’s too! Hmmm. Decisions

 

[Park ranger]

24 of varget with an 80 .030” off will give you x ring. It’s not super fast and not my go to load because it’s kinda slow but will work

 

[SWRichmond]

Agree, 24 gr Varget and a Berger 80.5.

 

[ratguner]

......No one shoots 223 at 1000 except the Palma guys.

I can name at least 20.....

 

[riflewoman]

I can name at least 20.....

Do they win?

 

[GSS]

I’m seasoned with my 6BR at 600 and do pretty well in prone. I’m new to Service Rifle though.

Welcome to Service Rifle, Glad to see it.
Hopefully you enjoy it and set a goal of earning Distinguished Rifleman

You specifically asked about 600 Yard Loads
You are in luck because all of the on topic responses you have received to date from mag length 77's to 82's are great choices for 600 yards.
Another great thing about Service rifles out to 600 yards is many projectiles and loads will be capable of cleaning the target if the shooter is up to the task.

Where you are experienced with Match Rifle you will likely do fine with any of the 600 yard options already mentioned.
You will just have to watch the wind closer and adjust for it more than you are accustomed to so far with your 6BR.

Let us know what you decide on for a 600 yard load and how it works out for you.

George

 

[people]

Everyone I know shoots some kind of 80ish gr bullet at 600. I am the only one I know of who just uses 75g or 77gr bullets. I like using one round all the way. It is just too easy to load a bunch of ammo and just grab a can when I want to go shooting. Instead of making sure I had enough for 200 then 300 then 600.

 

[DR_2297]

The biggest hurdle to cleaning the MR1 is not the capability of the rifle or ammo but the trigger IMO. 3 years ago I would have also said sights and rigidity of the platform (lack of adjustability to fit the shooter). Not so much anymore with adjustable LOP and optics.

I can outshoot my SR with my Prone rifle (Eliseo) in 223 with the same exact load quite easily. I always seem to leak one or two out in the 9 with the SR over 20 shots. Generally a corner because of the trigger. Cleaning with the Eliseo (irons or optics) is often the norm for me with 13-14X.

This is why I really love SR. It is the challenge of mastering the platform and making it my B****

 

[Brady W]

Hey Chad, welcome to service rifle!

I have been shooting service guns since I joined the Air Guard back in '08, and I have found that if you get a good barrel and trigger, focus on sight alignment and trigger control, many many loads / bullets will do you well. You can shoot anything from a 68-90 across the course depending on which stage you are in, and how much you want to experiment.

My "tried and true" loads have varied only slightly.
For 2-300 yards I am using 77gr Sierra Matchkings, Remington BR 7 1/2 primer in a LC case with 23.5 gr Varget. I have used 68 Hornadys and 69 SMKs and they shoot very well also. Everything else was the same. These are seated just shy of mag length, trying to hit 2.255 (mag length is 2.260).

For 600 yards, whether across the course or mid range I use 80.5 Bergers, Remington BR 7 1/2 primer, LC single year sorted cases, (right now LC 13s), and 24.5 Varget. These are seated .012-.015" off of the lands. I haven't seen any pressure signs, and my primer pockets last 8-10 firings easily. I used to use 80 SMKs, and have shot high scores and cleans with them as well.

I have gotten to the point where I sort my brass in 1 grain spreads for 600 yards only. When I started doing this I saw my group sizes decrease and my X-count increase, but I wouldn't do this or recommend it for anyone unless they are at the point where they are chasing 1-2 points and X's at 600.

You can use 77s all the way out to 600. There are plenty of shooters who do this. If I was going to, I probably would seat them out and put more behind them, but you can just run them in your pet load and shoot them at mag length also.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I am also shooting gain twist barrels. My two service rifles have 1-8.0 to 1-7.7 (.300 gain). However, once these go out I will be changing to something in the neighborhood of a 1-7.7 to 1-7.0.

If you decide to shoot the new Hornady 80 ELDs, we have figured out that the MINIMUM twist rate is 7.2. I was shooting 3 minutes of elevation at 600 with a 7.7 twist. They are very long, even though the weight did not increase over the A-Max.

There's a lot of good information over at the national match forums too. Check it out usrifleteams.com -> forums -> National Match.

Good luck! Brady

 

[Brady W]

Do they win?

The first time I saw a guy shoot a .223 at 1000 yards at Camp Perry he shot a clean. Last year at NRA he shot a 446-25x in a palma match. I'd say thats pretty good!

I think he won the Mustin Trophy too ... palma rifle

 

[kzin]

So 90s have been tried and didn't work out in SR?

 

[dcali]

I just shoot 77s across the course. At my level (expert) it’s just not worth the hassle of keeping track of two different boxes of ammo. The 80s aren’t that much better.

 

[GSS]

So 90s have been tried and didn't work out in SR?

99% basically yes in the 600 yard discussion like this thread was started for.

There is always the rogue exception but Generally / overall 90's are not worth the cost or effort for 600 yards in a AR 15 Service Rifle.

 

[Twdmar]

23-24 gr reloder-15 with a sierra 80. The pointed bullets are an improvement over the older ones. My highest 600 yr score was shot with ammo thrown on a progressive so even in a little case like 223 I think you can spend more time practicing with the rifle and less time at the loading bench.

 

[Brady W]

99% basically yes in the 600 yard discussion like this thread was started for.

There is always the rogue exception but Generally / overall 90's are not worth the cost or effort for 600 yards in a AR 15 Service Rifle.

This is basically true. In most service rifles, a 90 grain bullet will not work. They simply are not spinning fast enough because generally a service rifle will have between an 7 and 8 twist barrel.

The 90s that Sierra makes require a 6.5 twist or faster. The 90 Berger VLDs require a 7 twist or faster. VLDs are also hard to tune, and once you do you have to keep chasing the throat erosion as it grows.

Joe Carlos builds guns with gain twist barrels that are called "radical" for the 90s. They are such because they are extreme gains, starting around 13-14 twist, and finishing well under 7, something like 1-13.6 to 1-6.2. I currently shoot one like this, and 80s work great. I haven't had a chance to test 88s, 90s, or 95s (winter in WI), but when I do I will put up a report. There have been some good wins with these gain twists and 90s. I think typically you are going to see them out of the .224 valkyries nowadays, tho.

Good luck, Brady