Ragheads? Where do I get a tag for those, is there a limit?
24" or 26" 300wm barrel for elk
- Thread starter William Hester
- Start date
Ragheads? Where do I get a tag for those, is there a limit?
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
A 300 wm with a carbon barrel is going to have some SERIOUS recoil, even with a brake. I hope you practice. Guides have reported clients having more problems with a 300 WM and 300 Weatherby than other calibers used.
Roy Weatherby's favorite cartridge was the 257 Weatherby. A friend of mine did not know any better and killed 6 nice bulls with his 257 Weatherby, then someone told him it was not an elk rifle. It pays to shooting something with recoil that you feel comfortable in handling.
Would be nothing wrong with a #4 SS non carbon barrel contour and using a fiberglass stock with the brake, AND save yourself $500+.
When I lived in Az, the 270 Win and the 30/06 were the #1 elk rifles. I went with my 7 Mag loaded with partitions and elk just flopped. Every one in my camp called my rifle "the Cannon".
I would urge you to get a rifle that you are going to love to shoot, not love to own. Gut shooting an elk is about as wrong as it gets because they run down into some of the most treacherous canyons you can imagine.
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Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I use a scabbard style pack for elk hunting, I cannot draw a rifle with a barrel longer than 24"" without dropping the pack. So I prefer a barrel 22" or less.
Shot plenty off hand, when the need presented itself. But when I can I prefer to steady against a tree or solid object to aid in being more steady.
I built a lightweight 300 mag for and elk rifle several years ago, used a titanium action, adl McMillan sporterstock and a light’ish’ fluted barrel. Cut to 27”. I would recommend 26 on the magnums. I just wanted to try and get as much velocity as possible. The rifle handles great and I like it. It is a handful at the bench with 200gr GK’s but fine for field use.
My son shot, a nice, 6x6 Bull with his New, 22.5" 7mm-08, Tikka T3X, SS superlite, using 150 ELD-X's, going 2,850 FPS, sitting with rifle over "Sticks", in Idaho.
My grandson called my son's Bull in, with a Bugle, then Cow called, til' almost "broadside", at 250 Yards from across, a small canyon ( Dad was, real proud of him). The Horn ELDx penetrated, well ! They were Bivy Huntin', 2.5 Miles "IN" from, the Road and had to make 2 trip's to get all the Camp Equip and Meat/ Rack out, in one Day ! The 7.5 Pound Rifle, is "the" only way to go for this type of "Hunting" !
I used, a 24" Tikka T3, SS Lite, in .270 WSM with 140 AccuBonds going 3,150 FPS, at only 65-70 yards, on mine, smaller Bull, but still, a nice Fat one !
Again, sitting position, with "Sticks",.. in a foot of Snow, outta Flagstaff. The AccuBond went in, just behind the "crease" thru, hide, rib's, Lungs and out the far side upper shoulder Bone, about 1 1/2 inch dia hole with MINIMAL "blood shot" meat, a TOUGH Bullet going that fast and that, close ! I'm very happy with the Bullet's performance! My Rifle weigh's 3 ounces more than my son's as, I use steel Rings and a slightly bigger scope (LOL).
We "Hunt" Elk and usually end up walking a long ways! We like, the smaller, lighter, Rifles that, have 700 Yard "capability" just in case, a longer shot becomes available. We practice a lot in "field positions" over packs Prone to 700 yd's and sitting with "Sticks" to 400 yards on 10" dia steel plates. Our scope Turrets, are "Validated" for our Hand loads at 6,500 Ft elevation and about 30*- 40* Temp's. These "Rig's" do just fine, in the snowy Mountains and High Desert Country, that we Hunt in.
My grandson called my son's Bull in, with a Bugle, then Cow called, til' almost "broadside", at 250 Yards from across, a small canyon ( Dad was, real proud of him). The Horn ELDx penetrated, well ! They were Bivy Huntin', 2.5 Miles "IN" from, the Road and had to make 2 trip's to get all the Camp Equip and Meat/ Rack out, in one Day ! The 7.5 Pound Rifle, is "the" only way to go for this type of "Hunting" !
I used, a 24" Tikka T3, SS Lite, in .270 WSM with 140 AccuBonds going 3,150 FPS, at only 65-70 yards, on mine, smaller Bull, but still, a nice Fat one !
Again, sitting position, with "Sticks",.. in a foot of Snow, outta Flagstaff. The AccuBond went in, just behind the "crease" thru, hide, rib's, Lungs and out the far side upper shoulder Bone, about 1 1/2 inch dia hole with MINIMAL "blood shot" meat, a TOUGH Bullet going that fast and that, close ! I'm very happy with the Bullet's performance! My Rifle weigh's 3 ounces more than my son's as, I use steel Rings and a slightly bigger scope (LOL).
We "Hunt" Elk and usually end up walking a long ways! We like, the smaller, lighter, Rifles that, have 700 Yard "capability" just in case, a longer shot becomes available. We practice a lot in "field positions" over packs Prone to 700 yd's and sitting with "Sticks" to 400 yards on 10" dia steel plates. Our scope Turrets, are "Validated" for our Hand loads at 6,500 Ft elevation and about 30*- 40* Temp's. These "Rig's" do just fine, in the snowy Mountains and High Desert Country, that we Hunt in.
I'm not trying to start a fight here, but all of this is making no sense to me. You're getting a new 300WM barrel for hunting elk and you're going with the long, carbon wrapped barrel. You're anticipating the need to shoot offhand (in my mind automatically keeps you at 300yards or less in the best of circumstances). It just seems like WAY too much gun for that and you'll have a rifle that is miserable to shoot. With the brake it'll be miserably loud and no one will be able to stand anywhere near you while you target shoot with it. Without the brake, it'll be brutal to shoot. I would almost wager money that you'll develop a flinch. I know of no one who successfully shot a hunting weight magnum for any period of time without developing some reservations about pulling the trigger (flinching, tensing up, etc.).
My unsolicited advice on this matter is to ditch the magnum. Why do you need it? 30-06, shooting a 165 in a 7 pound rifle with a 22 inch barrel is my favorite choice for elk. Mostly because it's what my grandpa used and left to me. If I were re-barreling, I'd probably consider going smaller; perhaps a 7-08. 22 inch barrel works great, although I'd strongly consider going even shorter because I like the rifle to be as compact as possible to make protecting the crown while carrying it easier. Nothing is as cringe-worthy for me as running the end of the barrel into something on accident while it's slung on my back.
My unsolicited advice on this matter is to ditch the magnum. Why do you need it? 30-06, shooting a 165 in a 7 pound rifle with a 22 inch barrel is my favorite choice for elk. Mostly because it's what my grandpa used and left to me. If I were re-barreling, I'd probably consider going smaller; perhaps a 7-08. 22 inch barrel works great, although I'd strongly consider going even shorter because I like the rifle to be as compact as possible to make protecting the crown while carrying it easier. Nothing is as cringe-worthy for me as running the end of the barrel into something on accident while it's slung on my back.
This. Plenty of power, it shoots really nice and flat. A lot of great bullet choices. And best of all, you don't need a brake to tolerate practicing with it!
PS; We ditched ( SOLD) our 26 inch, 11-12 Pound, .300 WSM and .338 Win mag. Rifles, as we "know" that, MOST Elk, are killed, at 400 yards or,.. LESS !!
Elk are usually found, a LONG ways from, the Truck, too ! Closest Elk we've EVER shot, was, a 1/2 mile from, the Truck, ONE, time ( a Gift from God !) The rest of our Elk were, 1 1/2 to 3 miles, "in" country, that is sometimes, STEEP ! Think about that, when putting a "Rig" together ! Think about shooting, the Rifle a LOT in practice from ALL, Field positions, too ! We don't use "Brakes" and hate,.. RECOIL ! Plenty of Elk have been shot DEAD, with,.. .270's, 280's, 7mm's, .308, .30-06's. etc., Rifles up to the 7mm Rem Mag. w/160's / 168's, can be shot without, a Brake "comfortably" and without,.. developing a FLINCH ! Just MY 2 Cents !
Elk are usually found, a LONG ways from, the Truck, too ! Closest Elk we've EVER shot, was, a 1/2 mile from, the Truck, ONE, time ( a Gift from God !) The rest of our Elk were, 1 1/2 to 3 miles, "in" country, that is sometimes, STEEP ! Think about that, when putting a "Rig" together ! Think about shooting, the Rifle a LOT in practice from ALL, Field positions, too ! We don't use "Brakes" and hate,.. RECOIL ! Plenty of Elk have been shot DEAD, with,.. .270's, 280's, 7mm's, .308, .30-06's. etc., Rifles up to the 7mm Rem Mag. w/160's / 168's, can be shot without, a Brake "comfortably" and without,.. developing a FLINCH ! Just MY 2 Cents !
YES,.. THIS ^^^ an EXPERIENCED Hunter !! Our rifles, are less than, 1 MOA "shooter's" but, NOT in the Forest or Hills when huffing/ puffing up hills, freezing cold, in snow, hood up/ mittens on, etc. and you WON'T have, a Bench rest, with you ! Even Prone with a bipod shooting, can be tough sometimes, due to, slope, weeds, rocks and sagebrush height. Sitting with "Sticks" is what we practiced, a lot of ! We hunt with, Packs on, that carry, elk quarter bags, Para-cord, Head lamps, Puffy Jacket, Water, Snacks, knife, bone saw, etc. and use a Kifaru Gun Bearer to hold the Rifle with and Trekking poles to aide in hiking steep, Mountain Trails (where the Elk usually,.. ARE). Good luck !
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Personally I think anything shorter than 24" for a BG rifle is over rated. 24-28" is fine regardless of if it's carried in the woods or open country. The extra 2-6" isn't really a hindrance unless in thick swampy areas and crawling around on all fours. I had a 338 win mag in a 20" barrel factory brake on it. Yes it will work but if you want all you can get from a magnum case, at least 24" is needed. 26-28 is optimum. That 338 sure did the job tho. Think my ears are still ringing from the last time I pulled the trigger. Way too short a barrel for a brake IMO. Would have rather dealt with the recoil than the hearing damage it caused. For seated shooting on sticks, a rear resting point is needed to get the best accuracy. I have a bag I put between my upper thigh and rear of the stock that makes it bench rest solid shooting. Well, almost anyway. Nothing beats a bench.
I think either one is fine.
My go-to hunting load is a 215gr Berger at 2950fps. I like it enough that I use it for basically everything.
I think there is a weird obsession with saving weight on the rifle at the detriment to everything else. There's more stuff that goes into a pack than just the rifle. For instance, I can save 2.5lbs by spending a little more money on a nice back-packing tent, or about the same weight and space by getting a nicer sleeping bag.
Some guys will literally show up to a hunt with a $6000 rifle that weighs 7 pounds...and then carry around a Korean War sleeping bag that weighs 30 pounds because it has real goose feathers.
As far as offhand shooting; I've done it quite a bit, and I practice it as well. If you can't find the animals in nice open areas, sometimes you have to crawl around in some thick brush to get to them. Or you might have a chance encounter as well. I didn't shoot any of my deer this year from standing on my two feet, but I did shoot a few last year while walking around.
My go-to hunting load is a 215gr Berger at 2950fps. I like it enough that I use it for basically everything.
I think there is a weird obsession with saving weight on the rifle at the detriment to everything else. There's more stuff that goes into a pack than just the rifle. For instance, I can save 2.5lbs by spending a little more money on a nice back-packing tent, or about the same weight and space by getting a nicer sleeping bag.
Some guys will literally show up to a hunt with a $6000 rifle that weighs 7 pounds...and then carry around a Korean War sleeping bag that weighs 30 pounds because it has real goose feathers.
As far as offhand shooting; I've done it quite a bit, and I practice it as well. If you can't find the animals in nice open areas, sometimes you have to crawl around in some thick brush to get to them. Or you might have a chance encounter as well. I didn't shoot any of my deer this year from standing on my two feet, but I did shoot a few last year while walking around.
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
Three of us went out yesterday with our elk rifles to do some off-hand shooting. We've hunted together often, and all killed several elks.
With one simple session of standing, off-hand shooting, (100 yards) we all agree that our shooting is abysmal, and that we need to get out and practice more often.
I shot better than my buds, simply because I shoot more often, and my rifle is tuned better. When I say I shot better, it means that I kept eight of my ten shots on an 8x10" target at a hundred yards. Both of the others were less than 50%.
At this particular skill level, NONE of us should take a shot at 200 yards. And shooting a more powerful rifle ain't gonna help.
All ya have to do to kill an elk is shoot them in the lungs, and if you do that they're gonna die. Doesn't matter if it's a 30-30 or a 338.
Shooting a Magnaboomer, can extend your long range accuracy IF you have a good rest, and know how to shoot your rifle.
I believe that the vast majority of us mortals would do well to shoot a rifle that is pleasant to practice with, and keep our shots within a sensible range. jd
With one simple session of standing, off-hand shooting, (100 yards) we all agree that our shooting is abysmal, and that we need to get out and practice more often.
I shot better than my buds, simply because I shoot more often, and my rifle is tuned better. When I say I shot better, it means that I kept eight of my ten shots on an 8x10" target at a hundred yards. Both of the others were less than 50%.
At this particular skill level, NONE of us should take a shot at 200 yards. And shooting a more powerful rifle ain't gonna help.
All ya have to do to kill an elk is shoot them in the lungs, and if you do that they're gonna die. Doesn't matter if it's a 30-30 or a 338.
Shooting a Magnaboomer, can extend your long range accuracy IF you have a good rest, and know how to shoot your rifle.
I believe that the vast majority of us mortals would do well to shoot a rifle that is pleasant to practice with, and keep our shots within a sensible range. jd
Couple inches of barrel might be 100fps. Not much of a difference if you ask me. 100fps won't make a bad shot work, and out at the target it's even less than that.
I did, many years ago, while hunting with, my custom .338 Win Mag. in Colorado at about, 100-110 yards, a running shot, (he folded up, like the Last of the Mohican's Elk, did, flipped, asszz over tea kettle !) but last couple, we killed were by using sitting position, rested over "Sticks" with Pack supporting rifle's "Toe",.. freakin' AWESOME, "STEADY" and precise, position, IF, a Prone shot, is UN available ! I can hit our 11" dia steel plate 5X, in a row in this position at 400 Yards. I also like to rest rifle against small tree's if close shot and I use a much smaller cartridge than, the .338 W Mag NOW, and I shoot,.. BETTER ! I really like, my .270 WSM w/ 140 gr Bonded Bullets as, it's Flat FAST and deadly with, LOW Recoil for, a 7.5 Pound Rifle ! Like was stated earlier, put the Bullet thru Heart/ Lungs= dead Elk, Archery Hunter's do THIS, too !
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To the OP,..
I would think seriously about, the "style" of Hunting that, you want to do and the "Terrain" that, you are going to, "Hunt" in.
1) Is it "glassable" OPEN Country and are long, PRONE shots, "possible" ??
2) Or will you be,.. hiking, stalking slowly thru the Woods, stopping, sitting and glassing out to 4-500 yards when, possible ??
This would/ should determine, HOW, to build,.. YOUR rifle!
Our Rifles, are "set up" for, style #2 "Hunting" and 700 Yards,.. as Max shots !
I would think seriously about, the "style" of Hunting that, you want to do and the "Terrain" that, you are going to, "Hunt" in.
1) Is it "glassable" OPEN Country and are long, PRONE shots, "possible" ??
2) Or will you be,.. hiking, stalking slowly thru the Woods, stopping, sitting and glassing out to 4-500 yards when, possible ??
This would/ should determine, HOW, to build,.. YOUR rifle!
Our Rifles, are "set up" for, style #2 "Hunting" and 700 Yards,.. as Max shots !
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That's true. It's just that many guys building magnum cartridge rifles want to squeeze all the performance they can. For a woods gun, no biggie. Many LR hunting rigs are long barreled setups and for good reason. Again IMO only, I like the 24"+ barrel setups. I have some 20-22 that accuracy is on par with any longer barrel gun I own. So a 300 mag with a 22" barrel is about equal to a 30-06 with a 26" barrel. Give or take. May be worth chopping off a magnum and still having great non magnum performance. Just all personal preference.
@ 284winner,.
When, I was much younger, I too, wanted, to shoot a big Magnum Rifle, across Canyons at Elk and built, a custom .338 Win Mag on, a lapped, squared, Wby MKV action, w/ a 25 1/2" Douglas Premium Barrel, Glass Bedded, trig work, etc. The Rifle "Clover leafed" 210 Nosler Part's and 225 gr Horn Spire pt's ! I never did get to shoot one, across a big Canyon ! It was, a "Killer" tho,.. on BOTH, ends ( Pre muzzle Brake era!) I sold it, for two Grand, when I started Bow Hunting and soon realized, how deadly, a sharp 3 bladed Arrow thru, the Heart/ Lung area was and decided that, a "reasonably good" Bullet, would "do" the SAME thing, if it Mushroomed and penetrated "well"! Thus, I went back to the 7mm R Mag ( 154 gr InterBond's at, 3,070 FPS ) and recently, to a 24" Tikka @ 7.5 pounds in .270 WSM, driving the wonderful, 140 grain AccuBond's at, 3,150 FPS, that's still going OVER 2,000 FPS at 750 yd's. Nosler says that, the AB will expand down to 1,800 FPS,.. IF, I ever needed to shoot, that far! Did you read my post to the OP, right above yours about, the 2 different "styles" of Hunting ?
When, I was much younger, I too, wanted, to shoot a big Magnum Rifle, across Canyons at Elk and built, a custom .338 Win Mag on, a lapped, squared, Wby MKV action, w/ a 25 1/2" Douglas Premium Barrel, Glass Bedded, trig work, etc. The Rifle "Clover leafed" 210 Nosler Part's and 225 gr Horn Spire pt's ! I never did get to shoot one, across a big Canyon ! It was, a "Killer" tho,.. on BOTH, ends ( Pre muzzle Brake era!) I sold it, for two Grand, when I started Bow Hunting and soon realized, how deadly, a sharp 3 bladed Arrow thru, the Heart/ Lung area was and decided that, a "reasonably good" Bullet, would "do" the SAME thing, if it Mushroomed and penetrated "well"! Thus, I went back to the 7mm R Mag ( 154 gr InterBond's at, 3,070 FPS ) and recently, to a 24" Tikka @ 7.5 pounds in .270 WSM, driving the wonderful, 140 grain AccuBond's at, 3,150 FPS, that's still going OVER 2,000 FPS at 750 yd's. Nosler says that, the AB will expand down to 1,800 FPS,.. IF, I ever needed to shoot, that far! Did you read my post to the OP, right above yours about, the 2 different "styles" of Hunting ?
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