Electronic targets/ no hit

[foxguy]

Here's a story of a Shooter who was scored a miss with a regular pit pulling team. The shooter was shooting a 223 Rem F-class F-TR Rifle.

Paper Targets, Pullers, and Pit target scorers also have there problems. I was at a mid range match where a Shooter was scored a "miss". He had been consistently shooting X's, 10's, and a few 9's. on about his 14th shoot the pit team had scored a miss, the shooters spotter had been watching each shots trace and told the shooter the trace showed a good shot that went to the same location his other shots had been impacting.
the shooter challenged the call the pit puller team looked again for the impact point on the target face and again reported no new hole. At that point the shooter figured he just accepted there findings. He finished with a 186 with 11 X's. After the match the spotter asked some other Seasoned Shooters how this could happen, they stated the bullet probable impacted either thru the scoring disk or right next to it and the Pit crew just missed it. That sounded reasonable to me knowing the shooter had been shooting and scoring very well and was a seasoned shooter as well. This shooter would usually score in the high 190"s.

The spotting scope was Kowa 82 MM good glass for viewing shots.

 

[rardoin]

^^^^ Yep....paper target not ready for prime time too???? There can be issues with both as described above but no one pisses and moans about paper targets...or do they??? Hmm....damn slow pit service causing me to rapid fire last 3-4 (or more) shots so as not to run out of time..OR...wrinkles in hastily and poorly placed repair centers causing potential problems...OR...centers or rings being blown out so a shot can't be reliably scored as touching or not touching a ring that no longer exits...it can go on ad nauseum. Sure...e-targets are not perfect but neither is paper. We certainly are having growing pains using them here in the states and perhaps they are not ready for Nationals..but I think they will be soon as clubs are learning more about proper set-up and usage.

 

[davidjoe]

Above is a safer, hollow spindle with a visible exit hole. My puller knew a shot hit, and thankfully saw it twitch, because the bullet threaded the spindle at 1,000. Can’t really say the paper target “failed” to do its job because a regular spindle would have blown out an obvious, giant hole, but probably cut the puller. Yes it was an X. .

 

[ChrisNZ]

.. “open frame” targets, which have no acoustic chamber to to prevent shock wave interference from confusing the processor are notorious for dropping shots. ....

That is not true for the Silver Mountain system. I have multiple seasons of experience on them and the only potential glitch is if the adjacent shooter fires at exactly the same time.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Here's a story of a Shooter who was scored a miss with a regular pit pulling team. The shooter was shooting a 223 Rem F-class F-TR Rifle.

Paper Targets, Pullers, and Pit target scorers also have there problems. I was at a mid range match where a Shooter was scored a "miss". He had been consistently shooting X's, 10's, and a few 9's. on about his 14th shoot the pit team had scored a miss, the shooters spotter had been watching each shots trace and told the shooter the trace showed a good shot that went to the same location his other shots had been impacting.
the shooter challenged the call the pit puller team looked again for the impact point on the target face and again reported no new hole. At that point the shooter figured he just accepted there findings. He finished with a 186 with 11 X's. After the match the spotter asked some other Seasoned Shooters how this could happen, they stated the bullet probable impacted either thru the scoring disk or right next to it and the Pit crew just missed it. That sounded reasonable to me knowing the shooter had been shooting and scoring very well and was a seasoned shooter as well. This shooter would usually score in the high 190"s.

The spotting scope was Kowa 82 MM good glass for viewing shots.

I happen to shoot a .223 in F-TR and I know something about bullet jackets disintegrating in flight. A trace viewed through a spotting scope is NOT a definitive call on shot placement by any stretch of the imagination. Who's to say there couldn't have been a jacket failure in this case? Even assuming the shot hit the target somewhere in the X-ring as claimed, this is a problem of the person pulling the target...NOT a problem with the use of pits or paper targets. It really shouldn't be too difficult for a pit puller to figure out that if they saw a dirt splash on the berm in about the same spot as all the others, there's going to be a hole in the target in about the same spot.

E-target fans always love to point out there are problems with paper targets. Well duh...no system is perfect. However, a fair comparison talk about both the frequency and severity of issues with electronic versus paper targets. Betcha the paper targets win that contest hands down. Neither system is proof against errors caused by someone that doesn't know what they're doing, whether it's someone pulling targets in the pits, the people setting up the e-systems, or the actual shooters on the line themselves.

 

[6BRinNZ]

In several years (ive lost count of how many years 4+ on ets) I've never had a shot lost on a SMT ET.
I have been marked a M after blowing up the spotter in a regional.
I have seen dumb things like batteries not charged cause issues with ETs. I have been subject to excessive marking delays at 1000 on windy days shooting 6br because the markers cant detect the strike like they can with a 7mm or .308.
I've done full load development on Ets and taken that load to nationals on paper and come second with highest x count and won a bunch of stuff along the way.
Ets are different and have their faults but IME the positives out weigh the negatives.
Yes nationals and regionals the organizers should have their act together paper or ET.

 

[foxguy]

I happen to shoot a .223 in F-TR and I know something about bullet jackets disintegrating in flight. A trace viewed through a spotting scope is NOT a definitive call on shot placement by any stretch of the imagination. Who's to say there couldn't have been a jacket failure in this case? Even assuming the shot hit the target somewhere in the X-ring as claimed, this is a problem of the person pulling the target...NOT a problem with the use of pits or paper targets. It really shouldn't be too difficult for a pit puller to figure out that if they saw a dirt splash on the berm in about the same spot as all the others, there's going to be a hole in the target in about the same spot.

E-target fans always love to point out there are problems with paper targets. Well duh...no system is perfect. However, a fair comparison talk about both the frequency and severity of issues with electronic versus paper targets. Betcha the paper targets win that contest hands down. Neither system is proof against errors caused by someone that doesn't know what they're doing, whether it's someone pulling targets in the pits, the people setting up the e-systems, or the actual shooters on the line themselves.

Ned,

Totally agree!

This Match I had attended was my first match, and I was surprised that a Shooter who was a seasoned shooter and was shooting so very well and they called the shot a "miss". I'm new at this and have only attended 2 F-Class matches (mid range - 600 yards). After 2 matches I'm hooked. I enjoy the shooting and would welcome more time to visit with the other shooters. With going down to the pits and doing my pit duty, the time to visit with other shooters is very limited. With Electronic targets the match will go a little quicker, spectators will be able to view and follow a Shooters results as he or she is shooting making the Shoot more interesting to a shooters spouse or guest. I'm new to Electronic Targets, I haven't shot over any yet and look forward to doing so, If a problem arises I hope the Range Official is knowledgeable, experienced, and ready to take care of the issue. I have been following the Shotmarker Electronic Targets and they sound pretty good, as long as they are set up and calibrated correctly. I believe electronic target will evolve and get better as has Computers, Cell Phones, and the electronic games that interests so many of the younger generation.

I'm excited about Electronic Targets and hope by having them younger shooters will start attending more matches and then tell their friends about how much fun the are having. I believe as the electronic targets evolves that there will be a Shooters results electronic monitor and as each shooter shoots his or her shot, the shots score will be populated on the monitor for anyone to see standings. If it's not already happening, it will be. It's only going to get better. ( I enjoy watching the Olympic Shooting Sports and with the Electronic Targets being offered more spectators will be able to get involved in the sport.

I just an old telephone guy who saw the telephone industry go from electrical - mechanical to full computer controlled digital electronics. Times are a changing - technologies are getting better.

 

[Mudeat]

That is not true for the Silver Mountain system. I have multiple seasons of experience on them and the only potential glitch is if the adjacent shooter fires at exactly the same time.

I think you make my point for me. If you are just belly shooting F class, single shot stuff, then the likelihood of shockwave interference is reduced, but not zero. However, across the course matches, which have half of the rounds fired under rapid fire have a greatly increased probability of interference - like 2%. So, I have shot on the Silver Mountains and have had 3 dropped shots in a single 80 round match - 2 for me and 1 for the guy I was squadded with. Fortunately, this is well known and local rules allow you to just fill in that missing shot with the value of the lowest in your group.

 

[sdean]

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

View attachment 1083286

I'm skipping over the obvious issue with the anthropomorphization of a farm animal and going straight for the glaring non-sequitur: if the horse is dead, how is it able to speak?

 

[sdean]

I'm skipping over the obvious issue with the anthropomorphization of a farm animal and going straight for the glaring non-sequitur: if the horse is dead, how is it able to speak?

Would you rather this one

 

[SWRichmond]

Sales 101: "denying objections" is not the same thing as "overcoming objections.

 

[chkunz]

the only potential glitch is if the adjacent shooter fires at exactly the same time.

Shock wave interference is not caused by the bullets being fired at the same time, it is caused by the shock waves of the two bullets arriving at a sensor at the same time.

 

[ED3]

I'm skipping over the obvious issue with the anthropomorphization of a farm animal and going straight for the glaring non-sequitur: if the horse is dead, how is it able to speak?

I think you've stumbled onto the plot for a TV sitcom: 'MR DEAD'

 

[Ned Ludd]

I think you've stumbled onto the plot for a TV sitcom: 'MR DEAD'

Absolutely. But he has to have Xs for his eyes like sdean's cartoon above so everyone knows he's already dead...and, of course, no talking.