Berger BC deterioration ?

[rr2030]

Just received 2 boxes of .224 55 gr FB target bullets today. Can someone explain why the BC keeps going down. Machine wearing out? Different method of figuring the BC ? Five years ago when I could get my beloved Molly bullets they were .267, discontinued so I then had to switch to the naked ones at .262, now the new ones are .254. Can I expect the BC to deteriorate as time goes on?

 

[STOMP442]

I believe whats happening is an improvement in testing ability and also an averaging between lots. From what I understand Berger is continually testing their bullets and refiguring the average of said bullet. What we are getting as consumers and shooters is the best information possible and truth in advertising. This can't be said of a lot of other bullet makers out there.

 

[dcali]

In all honesty, BCs have no business being written out to three decimal places. It gives the illusion of precision where none exists.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Yes. The BC will eventually trend down to zero. At that point, Berger will just send you an empty box, thus cutting their manufacturing costs significantly.


In all seriousness, did you measure any dimensional aspects of sample bullets from each of those Lots? I wouldn't be surprised if they changed over time. I've observed Berger bullets vary in average OAL by as much .050" between two successive Lots. The longer bullets will generally have a higher average BC, although that is not typically represented on the box BC value. What you are observing over time most likely represents testing-based updates to that bullet's particular BC.

 

[Sheldon N]

Can I expect the BC to deteriorate as time goes on?

Yes, shoot them quick before the BC goes down any further! If you leave them on the shelf they're only going to get worse.

Little known fact... the main reason that a bullet pointing die works is because it closes the meplat, preventing the BC from leaking out and evaporating.

 

[rr2030]

Reading the gusher of knowledge spewing forth here from great minds I have decided to :

1) point my bullets
2) measure and sort them by length, weight, and BBTO
3) place all the new bullets in the old higher BC boxes I have lying around
4) store all the bullets in the deep freezer

Thanks all for participating !

 

[XTR]

...
Little known fact... the main reason that a bullet pointing die works is because it closes the meplat, preventing the BC from leaking out and evaporating.

Just for the record, I'm telling you up front, I am going to use this one.

 

[watercam]

Yes, shoot them quick before the BC goes down any further! If you leave them on the shelf they're only going to get worse.

Little known fact... the main reason that a bullet pointing die works is because it closes the meplat, preventing the BC from leaking out and evaporating.

Makes as much sense as anything else!

 

[BenPerfected]

Reading the gusher of knowledge spewing forth here from great minds I have decided to :

1) point my bullets
2) measure and sort them by length, weight, and BBTO
3) place all the new bullets in the old higher BC boxes I have lying around
4) store all the bullets in the deep freezer

Thanks all for participating !

How much do you think the older Berger bullet boxes with the high BC will sell for?
Ben

 

[rr2030]

How much do you think the older Berger bullet boxes with the high BC will sell for?
Ben

Not selling, in fact, I have some 60gr Hornadys that did not shoot as well as I had hoped. They are in the high BC Berger boxes now. Will try another load ladder in a month, will report the results here.

 

[KevinThomas]

I believe whats happening is an improvement in testing ability and also an averaging between lots. From what I understand Berger is continually testing their bullets and refiguring the average of said bullet. What we are getting as consumers and shooters is the best information possible and truth in advertising. This can't be said of a lot of other bullet makers out there.

This is it, right here. It’s an update, not a “deterioration” of BC. Berger is attempting to keep shooters informed of those minor changes that routinely occur during production, so that you have the most accurate information possible at your disposal. This will allow better and more accurate calculations when you run a ballistics program, and should get the results closer to what you’ll seen in “real-time” when you take the shot. Like it or not, these changes take place with ALL bullets, from ALL manufacturers, with every tooling Chang we or new production run. Berger is giving you the info to adapt, while the others are simply settling for “close enough.” Personally, I’d think the more astute shooters out there would appreciate the added time, expense and effort they put in to keep you fully up to speed.

 

[rr2030]

So BC going from .267 to .262 then .254 is not deterioration ?

de·te·ri·o·ra·tion
/dəˌtirēəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the process of becoming progressively worse.
   
   
   I was inquiring as to what may be the reason for the drop in BC. Many good opinions here, some ingenious.
   
   

 

[dgeesaman]

So BC going from .267 to .262 then .254 is not deterioration ?

de·te·ri·o·ra·tion
/dəˌtirēəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the process of becoming progressively worse.
   
   
   I was inquiring as to what may be the reason for the drop in BC. Many good opinions here, some ingenious.

I think we all know that using the word deterioration implies a lower quality or reduced performance. That doesn’t make any sense.

Berger is providing BC numbers that are more conservative, and presumably more accurately measured than before. Otherwise they’d leave the published numbers alone and stop testing.

I think we’re all smart enough to know that heavy reliance on G1 BCs is not smart. If you really need this number you’ll measure it yourself coming from your barrel. So this talk is a whole lot about very little.

 

[KevinThomas]

No, not deterioration, just a minor downward trend among a very small sample population. When someone sees an uptick in some future production run, and that latest info is printed on those boxes, I can already hear the howls of “inflated” BCs being raised. Sometimes there’s just no winning.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Reading the gusher of knowledge spewing forth here from great minds I have decided to :

1) point my bullets
2) measure and sort them by length, weight, and BBTO
3) place all the new bullets in the old higher BC boxes I have lying around
4) store all the bullets in the deep freezer

Thanks all for participating !

I get it, so the new ones will pick up some of the higher BC from the box by osmosis. That is sheer brilliance!!!

Edited to add: Assuming Sheldon N is correct with his pointing/meplat/BC hypothesis, make sure you put the new bullets in the old box BEFORE pointing them. Otherwise, the closed meplat will prevent them from absorbing BC from the old high BC box. Only point them when you take them out of the old box to load them LOL.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If it never changes everybody would be mad that theyre not testing and keeping current kinda keeps it inline with what youll see in the real world

 

[rr2030]

So the new bullets are -4.87% BC.

 

[joed49]

I think it's a matter of honesty more than anything else. I used to look at some advertised BC's and wonder how they could be so high.

 

[STOMP442]

So the new bullets are -4.87% BC.

I would be willing to bet that if you were to shoot each bullet side by side you would be hard pressed to see a difference if any. If Berger were to re-test your old lot with today's methods I'm willing to bet they would fall right in line with what they are publishing today. I'm not saying the information they printed on the box back then was wrong just that methods and technology have improved greatly since then. Berger was only able to print the best data they could derive from the testing methods they had available at the time. It's a 55gr 22 cal bullet anyways it's not like there is a lot of BC there to worry about anyways.

 

[rr2030]

"Can someone explain why the BC keeps going down"

Thats all I asked, I'm not knocking Berger just wondering. The group of people here, thankfully, dissect any and everything to the sub atomic level, so I knew I would get many opinions. I do shoot these routinely to 600 yards so I definitely need all the help I can get.