Best method for measuring distance to lands?

[SG4247]

This:

 

[Campbell]

You Yanks are geniuses!!!!!

Many thanks for this!

Cam AKA dumb ass Limey!!!

 

[strut64]

Stony point versus Wheeler method. I studied the Wheeler method via their video today and this afternoon puled my 6BR out and went to work. Looking at my notes from the last loading session and todays work I found that my CBTO for a 107SMK was 1.830/1,832 (stony point) and 1.840/1.842 (wheeler). I sort of dont know what that means yet, since after any measurement you still test For optimum seating depth

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Stony point versus Wheeler method. I studied the Wheeler method via their video today and this afternoon puled my 6BR out and went to work. Looking at my notes from the last loading session and todays work I found that my CBTO for a 107SMK was 1.830/1,832 (stony point) and 1.840/1.842 (wheeler). I sort of dont know what that means yet, since after any measurement you still test For optimum seating depth

I would've expected it to be the other way around....with the Stoney Point being longer than the stripped bolt method, if anything. Are you sure you're pushing it all the way in? (That's what she said)

 

[strut64]

To Guns and gunsmithing. That the Wheeler method was longer surprised me also. But I have worked on this chamber with a stony point a number of times and have gotten similar and consistent results. So I still don't know what this result means. I am not changing my seating depth. I was getting rifling marks on the bullet while doing the Wheeler Method but I was not shoving or forcing the bolt.

 

[dcali]

For a new rifle, the easiest way bar none is to have a barrel stub made by running the reamer part way into a piece of barrel scrap. That will give you a reference for initial load development. Once the barrel starts to wear adjustments are small, and you’ll be making those off your initial seating depth anyhow.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

To Guns and gunsmithing. That the Wheeler method was longer surprised me also. But I have worked on this chamber with a stony point a number of times and have gotten similar and consistent results. So I still don't know what this result means. I am not changing my seating depth. I was getting rifling marks on the bullet while doing the Wheeler Method but I was not shoving or forcing the bolt.

I don't use the stripped bolt method for basically the same reason as you. I only see benefit from either method if it is standardized, so that everyone is using the same method, for conversation purposes. The way I see it, whatever method you can get consistent results with is fine. It's not intended to be a conversation piece but rather a comparative measurement that is used to establish seating depth references. I personally don't care if one is better than the other or not, so long as I can get repeatable numbers within a thou or so. In fact, I normally start load work at the very opposite end of seating depth, by seating at full jam. I consider that number to be whatever depth into the lands a given amount of neck tension will allow with a given bullet, before it pushes the bullet back into the case. I just seat them long and close the bolt, basically. This leaves only one direction to work from. You ain't going deeper into the lands and that only leaves one option. To me, this is the simplest approach but YMMV.

Whatever method you use is as you say...a starting place. The only reason it matters how you measure where you start is for internet forums. If I say that I'm .010 off, you'd know exactly what that means but it has little or no bearing on if your barrel will shoot there. No shortcuts. The only way to know what seating depth is best in your barrel is to shoot them. JMHO.--Mike

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

For a new rifle, the easiest way bar none is to have a barrel stub made by running the reamer part way into a piece of barrel scrap. That will give you a reference for initial load development. Once the barrel starts to wear adjustments are small, and you’ll be making those off your initial seating depth anyhow.

Even with those, I start at full jam. So I really don't see much advantage there either. They are a handy tool though, for establishing where the lands USE to begin as well as checking shoulder bump and as a go/no go neck clearance guage.

 

[Drop Port]

To Guns and gunsmithing. That the Wheeler method was longer surprised me also. But I have worked on this chamber with a stony point a number of times and have gotten similar and consistent results. So I still don't know what this result means. I am not changing my seating depth. I was getting rifling marks on the bullet while doing the Wheeler Method but I was not shoving or forcing the bolt.

That wouldn't surprise me at all, about what I would expect and have found doing it both ways. With the rifle vertical and the weight of the bullet resting on my trigger finger (end of the stoney point rod) I can feel the slightest touch of the lands. I found the weight of the bolt dropping will put the bullet in slightly further 6-8 thou. So for this reason I don't bother stripping the bolt, I know I can get repeatable results the with my method and its quick. Both work fine for me and give a starting point but personally I trust my feel.

 

[JFrank]

Stony point versus Wheeler method. I studied the Wheeler method via their video today and this afternoon puled my 6BR out and went to work. Looking at my notes from the last loading session and todays work I found that my CBTO for a 107SMK was 1.830/1,832 (stony point) and 1.840/1.842 (wheeler). I sort of dont know what that means yet, since after any measurement you still test For optimum seating depth

The comparator isn't making contact in the same location, your lands haven't moved only the tools are different.
IMO

 

[Hengehold]

Assuming a brand new rifle, what is y’all favorite method for measuring the distance to the lands?

I have the Hornady equipment to do this, but no fired brass to compare base to shoulder length difference between the fired case and the modified case.

I’m always looking for new ways to shave extra consumables out of the load workup process.

Anybody tried this method? I would have to figure out how to disasssemble the TL3 bolt:

Just buy one of these and you will be all set.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Hor...Vl0wNCh2X9QYNEAQYAyABEgJMtfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Tsu45]

Stony point versus Wheeler method. I studied the Wheeler method via their video today and this afternoon puled my 6BR out and went to work. Looking at my notes from the last loading session and todays work I found that my CBTO for a 107SMK was 1.830/1,832 (stony point) and 1.840/1.842 (wheeler). I sort of dont know what that means yet, since after any measurement you still test For optimum seating depth

What is your base to shoulder line measurement on the stony point dummy case and a piece of your fired (and not resized) brass.

 

[p-man]

I load for the best practical hunting accuracy and where I hunt, opportunities to shoot beyond 400 yards are almost nonexistent; I'm usually loading for 8 - 10 different rifles at a time so I can't devote the attention to detail that you long-range shooters do with one or two rifles. This is what I do for each rifle to make things simple, fairly quick, and easily repeatable:

1) For each rifle, I make a MASTER dummy round for each bullet brand/type/weight I wish to load.

I begin with once-fired, neck-sized brass for each particular bullet for each rifle I load for. Before I start, I make sure that the chamber, throat, and beginning lands are thoroughly cleaned and then I lightly oil the lands, making sure the chamber is dry. I don't "hard" jam the bullets; when I close the bolt and seat - then open and extract - my usual neck tension grips the bullet enough that it doesn't stick - but light enough that when the bullet's seated against the lands, little if any marks remain on the bullet.

Next, I measure the OAL, then crimp the bullet permanently in the case with a Lee factory crimp die; afterwards I recheck the OAL and if not shortened by more than 1 or 2 thousandths, this becomes my master dummy for that bullet for this particular rifle.

2) When loading and I need to set up my seating die, I unscrew the seater stem almost all the way out, put the master dummy in, fully engage the die, then screw the seater stem down until it stops against the dummy bullet. Next I take a 'charged' case and seat a bullet at the depth as set by the master dummy. At this stage I have a loaded round that if chambered will be touching the lands; for example, let's say the master dummy OAL is 3.000" and we want to load with the bullet with 15-thousandths offset, then 3.000 - 0.015 = 2.985 which becomes the new OAL we want. To get there, I raise the die a little bit, screw the seater stem down a half-turn or so, lower the die and seat the bullet a little deeper. I take the partially seated round out and check the AOL, repeating the process until I get the desired length (2.985"). Now I have the seater die set for all the rounds I wish to load for that bullet depth.

3) Once I've refined a load combination that I'll be reloading repeatedly, I'll make a LOAD dummy for that particular bullet OAL which speeds up the process every time I load that particular combination.

4) Once I started doing this, it became apparent that if I weren't careful I could get all these different dummy rounds mixed up. So I make sure that all my master dummy rounds are marked as such and all my load dummies are marked with the offset distance and a 3-letter code I made up each brand-type bullet. I keep all loaded rounds, fired brass, and dummy rounds in a separate storage box for each rifle - This is especially important since I load three pairs of rifles having the same caliber.

This process works well for me and I get acceptable, repeatable, and predictable accuracy for my purposes. For those of you loading several calibers for a "tribe" as I am, this may help you organize your loading process save you some time. As always of course, YMMV

I apologize to some for "over-explaining" but for those new to this, I wanted to make it easier to understand. Not sure if I accomplished that or made it worse

 

[Bart B.]

How many shots does your rifle advance the bullet contact to the throat .001" down the barrel?

 

[p-man]

Bart, not sure what you mean; however, I'm not a target shooter, and just a "wanna be" long range shooter (just finishing up my first LR project). For me, a typical new build hunting rifle will get less than a 100-125 rounds through it initially for break-in and load development, and then 10-20 rounds a couple of times a year afterwards. So throat erosion is not a critical factor to me.

I do have a Hawkeye borescope and periodically check bore, throat, and chamber but unless I notice wear/erosion indications or my pet loads begins to 'wander', I don't recheck/remeasure the throat.

 

[JFrank]

How many shots does your rifle advance the bullet contact to the throat .001" down the barrel?

????

 

[p-man]

The only thing I can fathom is that he may be asking how many shots fired does it take to wear down the throat/lands by a thousandth - I don't know if he means in general or the original poster's particular cartridge.

 

[josebd]

This works for me.

View attachment 1059990

That's what I use

 

[cw308]

Bart B
I check it after I finish every lot of 500 , In the past on another forum you helped me alot , I want to thank you . Glad your back .
PS For the people on this forum that want very good and accurate advice follow Bart B's advise , he knows his stuff .


Chris

 

[Martin52]

I have used two methods, a Stoney Point/Hornady tool and a home made loose fit necked case.

For the home made version I will also take a sized case and run a inside neck reamer through it so the bullet slips in and out easily......Try the test bullet to see if it can be slipped into the case easily but needs enough force so that it will not slip. This is a judgement call, too loose and the bullet may stick in the lands and pull out of the case, too tight and you might indent the copper jacket when you close the bolt. Keep increasing the amount of neck you are sizing until you feel comfortable that it is tight but not too tight

Tsu45 - I do this also - but use a Lee Collet Die with similar effect. This might help if you already have a LCD. Just screw the die in until the neck is sized as above to just hold the bullet, seat long, chamber, release, remove gently from the chamber and measure - several times until you get consistency.