How many reloads before annealing

[270WinDude]

Some sort of professional annealing machine is up next on my reloading journey for purchasing. I just started ghetto annealing not long ago. But I have a question just out of curiousity. What issues have you personally encountered without annealing and how many loads did it take to get to that point. For me 4 to 5 loads and my neck tension is all over to the point facory ammo would be way more consistent to shoot. I ask because it seems a lot of people get into reloading and have no emphasis on annealing when to me, it defeats the purpose of reloading if you’re not annealing.

 

[JFrank]

Some sort of professional annealing machine is up next on my reloading journey for purchasing. I just started ghetto annealing not long ago. But I have a question just out of curiousity. What issues have you personally encountered without annealing and how many loads did it take to get to that point. For me 4 to 5 loads and my neck tension is all over to the point facory ammo would be way more consistent to shoot. I ask because it seems a lot of people get into reloading and have no emphasis on annealing when to me, it defeats the purpose of reloading if you’re not annealing.

How do you know ?

 

[270WinDude]

How do you know ?

Talking to people buying ammo at Walmart mostly but I’ve seen it here before too. Perhaps it’s just me but when I was buying up all my reloading stuff I thought annealing was optional.

 

[JFrank]

I meant how do you know your neck tension is all over the place

 

[Dave Berg]

I thought annealing was optional.

It is....

 

[270WinDude]

I meant how do you know your neck tension is all over the place

When I seat the bullets. Some nearly fall into place and others are tough as new. Then that effects the seating depth a bit so the presumably loose ones seat deeper. I’ve had this with Winchester and hornady brass. I’m shooting norma now and annealed after first shot so haven’t had it yet. I still have all my other brass ready to go though

 

[JFrank]

When I seat the bullets. Some nearly fall into place and others are tough as new. Then that effects the seating depth a bit so the presumably loose ones seat deeper. I’ve had this with Winchester and hornady brass. I’m shooting norma now and annealed after first shot so haven’t had it yet. I still have all my other brass ready to go though

Are you using a ram press?
Do you brush the necks with a nylon brush after annealing?

 

[gilmillan1]

I stopped annealing. Not worth it. Waste of time. My brass is very consistent without annealing.

 

[Falfan2017]

Try a tighter bushing on your resizer.

 

[jds holler]

Almost 50 years of reloading for me. Never have annealed a case. When I seat my bullets, I "feel" for at least some resistance. If any seem too lose, I put them in the box tips up, and use them for warmer/foulers. They seem to shoot fine.

I also shoot some pretty good groups with my Non-annealed, old, skanky, work hardened, inconstant neck tensioned, un-cleaned brass. I've got some brass that I've had since back when Jesus and I used to shoot together.

I work with a consistently inconsistent neck tension theory.

I also think that I might believe that +/- ten or fifteen pounds of neck tension is a pretty inconsequential percentage compared to the 40 or 50 THOUSAND PSI that starts the bullet on it's way.

If I was into long range I'd probably feel differently. jd

 

[Mozella]

Here's how I look at it. In theory, consistent neck tension can improve precision and that's a good reason to anneal every cycle. However, Brian Litz didn't detect any difference between anneal-every-time and cases which were shot ten times without annealing. It was a careful but limited test, so take it for what it's worth.

If there is an improvement, it isn't easy to prove it, but like many tiny steps which might help (neck turning, chamfering, pocket uniforming, trimming, etc), I do it because I think they all add up to a significant difference in precision even though proving any one of them is difficult without wearing out your barrel.

Keep in mind that "shooting good groups without annealing" can mean hitting a paper plate at 100 yards half the time or shooting bug holes nearly all the time. This is the Internet, so take what you read (including this post) for what it's worth.

One thing I know for sure is that I used to experience split neck rather quickly before I started annealing. Now I don't keep track of how many times I fire my brass and I simply don't consider split necks; they don't happen anymore. My brass seems to last forever, or at least until the primer pockets gets loose which is nearly forever. Incidentally, most shooters I compete against use Lapua brass and I do too. It's more expensive but it is well made and durable to the point that my brass cost per round fired is so low that I don't even consider it.

Annealing can be tedious and you can also spend a lot of money on a machine or both. I solved both problems by building my own for a little over a hundred bucks. It has an auto feed chute, it's accurate, adjustable, doesn't overheat, and it even has a round counter. I anneal my three competition calibers, .223, 6mm BR Norma, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Changing calibers takes literally ten seconds by adding a small shim.




It is so easy to use, that annealing isn't tedious so there is no reason not to do it every cycle. I seat bullets with a Wilson die and an arbor press which allows me to feel the seating force even though I can't actually measure it. Annealing every time lets me make 70 rounds of F-Class ammo where usually 68 or so feel identical and the two odd balls wind up as spare sighters. Annealing every cycle helps me achieve that consistency which may help at the target, or at least is unlikely to hurt.

 

[dickn52]

Answer to original post and heading....one reload and anneal. I know there are 40 posts here and 38 opinions.

 

[DngBat7]

I know this may not have been the question, but don’t forget your expensive brass lasts a lot longer because of annealing. This is a great annealer for 250-300. Start it and walk away

https://annealeez.com/

 

[tenring]

Here is a good read on the subject:
http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-81260.html

 

[billlarson]

Neck tension has a huge effect on accuracy..... to get consistent neck tension......and shoulder bump..... you must anneal.... or use new brass after a couple of firings.....
UNLESS.....
your shooting a gun with a very tite chamber ( with respect to brass size )....
OMHO
bill larson

 

[msinc]

I anneal cases I receive that I don't know the real history of, because after all, isn't absolutely every case you get "once fired"?? I also anneal when the expander ball starts to make a little chirp when being withdrawn from the neck.
To throw a real wrench into the fan., I see this a lot and cannot really explain it: cases with no anneal and inconsistent, higher neck tension sometimes, often times shoot better groups for me. But, the SD/ES is all over the place. Anneal and get fantastic SD/ES and I always seem to see the groups open up.
I do it in a limited way, but annealing to me is kinda like worrying over neck tension to the point of applying lube to the bullets before seating or fresh brass vs. certain number of times fired, so there is an exact amount of carbon in the neck vs. crimping the bullet, etc. It sure seems like the initial expansion when the gun goes boom opens the neck and all that worry and fret is for what??? jds holler explained it pretty good above. I guess it's a matter of what you choose to believe, which comes first? The chicken or the egg....the neck opening up and expanding or the bullet moving before it does??

 

[johara1]

Annealing, neck turning, trimming and primer pocket uniforming will make a very accurate round. Most don't have a rifle to see the difference, for the average guy and for hunting throw the expander away and forget about crimping and get the right size bushing for neck tension and work on powder charge and seating depth you will have a 1/2" gun..... jim

 

[F Class John]

Clearly opinions will be all over the board on this one on effects of doing it, how often or not at all but I anneal every time so I don’t have to wonder what the effects will be. I want to know my brass is reset the same each time I load and I hate brittle brass. Could I wait once, or twice or five times, sure I could but why would I? Considering the hours and number of steps I spend just to load 22 (or more) rounds for a match making things consistent this is just one more step that gives me confidence and preserves my expensive a$$ brass. I have an amp so it’s nothing to anneal them (especially with the amp mate on it now) and it’s probably just as easy with a couple other methods as well so why not. But hey it’s your money and time so YMMV.

 

[KevinThomas]

I’ve found annealing to be absolutely critical to some tasks, and virtually irrelevant for a great many others. I still use it, sometimes, if I’m doing case reforming such as making 7mm TCUs out of 223/5.56 brass. As for accuracy, I’ve run cases as many as 25-30 firings without any detectable loss of accuracy, and that was firing from strictly match-grade barrels in a return to battery machine rest fixture. I tended to lose cases due to primer pockets loosening, and almost never to case splits at the neck. If you’re losing necks or cracking, you’re most likely just st overworking the cases due to your die I.D. and your expander O.D., which is a totally separate problem.

Anneal if you wish, but many of the benefits being touted today are largely imaginary, and the process share as hell isn't the necessity that many are making it out to be.

 

[HTSmith]

I’ve found annealing to be absolutely critical to some tasks, and virtually irrelevant for a great many others. I still use it, sometimes, if I’m doing case reforming such as making 7mm TCUs out of 223/5.56 brass. As for accuracy, I’ve run cases as many as 25-30 firings without any detectable loss of accuracy, and that was firing from strictly match-grade barrels in a return to battery machine rest fixture. I tended to lose cases due to primer pockets loosening, and almost never to case splits at the neck. If you’re losing necks or cracking, you’re most likely just st overworking the cases due to your die I.D. and your expander O.D., which is a totally separate problem.

Anneal if you wish, but many of the benefits being touted today are largely imaginary, and the process share as hell isn't the necessity that many are making it out to be.

Oh my goodness! You done and done it!