COW fire forming

[dgeesaman]

There are a couple reasons I do not like or recommend cream of wheat or any other filler type fire forming. One is simple, walnut shells can be used as a sand blasting media, think about that.

Walnut shell blasting is used to strip and clean generator stator cores, which are multi-million dollar components made of soft, laminated steel. It's the blast media of choice because it's not like sand at all. They clean without damaging the metal. Barrels are much harder.

So I'd subtract that from evidence list.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Jb is extremely fine and when used incorrectly can cause issue with surface finish. COW fired at much higher velocities than blasting media may or may not cause issues, I for one will never find out.

 

[dgeesaman]

But, if this is the preferred method, why am I not able to find post where 6ppc shooters are hydroforming 220 Russian to 6ppc? Seem like they all seem to fireform. Or, am I missing something?

I suspect that although the fire forming process is no joy, it’s also not awful enough to risk changing that part of the BR shooters process.

And the 6ppc shooters who aren’t competing - like me - just buy Norma brass.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Hydro forming is for cases that your moving the shoulder on. No point for cases that still headspace or if your using a false shoulder.

 

[Ccrider]

Hydro forming is for cases that your moving the shoulder on. No point for cases that still headspace or if your using a false shoulder.

I know that this answers my question, but not sure how.

 

[JMayo]

Ok, I just ff 200 cases using 12.5 tight group and COW, 1'' patch stuff in the neck.
It's a dusty mess but still I didn't waste 200 bullets & my good powder & shoot bullets down barrel.
The build up ring at the neck came lose as a hardened washer. It would break up into quarter rings and caused weird spots on a few shoulders. I need a better neck brush.
The patches have to be stuffed down to prevent strings from lapping over neck.
I knew TG was a dirty powder but didn't think of it, I'll not use it again :/ it was like cleaning tar after 25 shots.
It went ok. But I didn't get any ideas on how the rifle shoots. That'll come later.
Long day 2-8 o'clock. 2hrs cleaning :/ the flour in front of my gun !
many many more like the black ones.

 

[Willow]

I use bullets in my 280AI, but cheap ones. No reason to use good ones.

Ditto.

 

[butchlambert]

Things are different for different shooters. As mentioned above, I use Bullseye and a wax plug in my PPC. I do have a fireforming barrel. I don't care about the throat and if it burns away. Brass does not shorten and I have no trouble with the donut.
I'm not trying to sell anybody on my method, but it works for me. Same as chambering a barrel, several ways to skin the cat, and several winners do it a different way.

 

[dgeesaman]

1 Gram = 15.4324 Grains (Mass) as per Google Search.

Unless it’s Wheaties. That’s in Whole Grains.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Things are different for different shooters. As mentioned above, I use Bullseye and a wax plug in my PPC. I do have a fireforming barrel. I don't care about the throat and if it burns away. Brass does not shorten and I have no trouble with the donut.
I'm not trying to sell anybody on my method, but it works for me. Same as chambering a barrel, several ways to skin the cat, and several winners do it a different way.

I dont see any problem with your way Butch. My main point is that I believe compressing and then forcing a material through a neck forms inconsistent cases. Anything that allows pressure to push the brass straight outward like firing a bullet, wax plug, or hydro forming is the way to go in my mind.

 

[JMayo]

This is an old barrel rechambered. I've never ff this way, I used bullets last year. I'm kinda at a neutral spot on which I think is the best. Here's my thoughts ..
I learned nothing about how it's gonna shoot but I didn't put more wear on it.
The shoulders aren't great, it'll take another firing but that firing will give very good info on powder, bullet seating than ff shots.
I was able to get a shoulder measurement, FL & neck size. Trim all to a desired length.

I also aced "clean your rifle for a really long time" test .... :/

I'm really liking the idea of hydro forming. That would have them where they are now without the mess ...

 

[Alexander-M]

New BRA Rifle
I will be picking up my new 6mm BRA rifle (used the Wheeler #1 BRA reamer from JGS) tomorrow, so I am ready to start working on the brass for it. I already have 200 Lapua 6mm BR cases, the tools for the 21st Century lathe (both for the 6mmBR as well as for the 6mmBRA), CCI 450 and Federal 205M primers, 500 Berger 105gr Hybrid bullets(*), and 8lb each of Varget and H4895.

COW and at home Hydroform
I thought about the COW approach for forming the brass, but I have decided against it – just my choice. Then I considered hydro forming the brass myself as with a Whidden die, but I am not sure I want to do this either.

Fire-Forming
Most of my shooting friends who have experience forming brass, fire form theirs. Some of them, depending on the cartridge they are fire forming, do this while shooting at a local match. I had planned to do this as well (shoot at a match), but there are not many matches now, so I would be fire forming just for the sake of forming the brass.

DJ’s!
Upon reading this thread, I learned about DJ’s Brass Service and their hydro forming. I calculated what it would cost me to fire form, and if I include the wear of the barrel in addition to the cartridge components, the cost comes to about 78¢ per case. DJ’s price is 60¢, and adding shipping both ways, would cost 74¢ per case. Of course, if I were to fire form myself, I would first turn the virgin 6mmBR brass to fit the chamber, but if DJ forms my brass, I would turn the already formed brass as a 6mmBRA case.

What would I miss, if anything, by having DJ’s hydroform my future BRA brass?

Thank you for your opinions.

Alex
(*) I have been trying to reach Vapor Trail and Bart’s bullets, have received emails from both, but so far no actual conversation. Anyway, I believe the less expensive Berger bullets will be just fine for now.

 

[JMayo]

Mine fit just straight out of the box. No turn neck 6brA.
I had a couple of proud primers and the bolt wouldn't close, that's how well the neck shoulder junction was to my barrel.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

New BRA Rifle
I will be picking up my new 6mm BRA rifle (used the Wheeler #1 BRA reamer from JGS) tomorrow, so I am ready to start working on the brass for it. I already have 200 Lapua 6mm BR cases, the tools for the 21st Century lathe (both for the 6mmBR as well as for the 6mmBRA), CCI 450 and Federal 205M primers, 500 Berger 105gr Hybrid bullets(*), and 8lb each of Varget and H4895.

COW and at home Hydroform
I thought about the COW approach for forming the brass, but I have decided against it – just my choice. Then I considered hydro forming the brass myself as with a Whidden die, but I am not sure I want to do this either.

Fire-Forming
Most of my shooting friends who have experience forming brass, fire form theirs. Some of them, depending on the cartridge they are fire forming, do this while shooting at a local match. I had planned to do this as well (shoot at a match), but there are not many matches now, so I would be fire forming just for the sake of forming the brass.

DJ’s!
Upon reading this thread, I learned about DJ’s Brass Service and their hydro forming. I calculated what it would cost me to fire form, and if I include the wear of the barrel in addition to the cartridge components, the cost comes to about 78¢ per case. DJ’s price is 60¢, and adding shipping both ways, would cost 74¢ per case. Of course, if I were to fire form myself, I would first turn the virgin 6mmBR brass to fit the chamber, but if DJ forms my brass, I would turn the already formed brass as a 6mmBRA case.

What would I miss, if anything, by having DJ’s hydroform my future BRA brass?

Thank you for your opinions.

Alex
(*) I have been trying to reach Vapor Trail and Bart’s bullets, have received emails from both, but so far no actual conversation. Anyway, I believe the less expensive Berger bullets will be just fine for now.

Youll never regret having dj’s complete your brass. Itll be perfect

 

[Alexander-M]

Youll never regret having dj’s complete your brass. Itll be perfect

That is what the consensus clearly shows, so I will have DJ's do my first 200. Then, I'll try fire-forming myself the next 200, starting with 10 cases, and see how it goes. If my results while fire-forming look promising, I will fire-form the rest during matches, as by then there will be more matches. If not, the remaining 190 will go to DJ's.

Alex

 

[GT Accuracy]

I use powder and a wax plug. No abrasive unless wax is full of grit. Growing .002 in length ain't a problem. I do have fireforming barrels.

We do it the way @butchlambert does it in our shop

 

[Dusty Stevens]

We do it the way @butchlambert does it in our shop

But do you shoot horse flies while fireforming like butch does?

 

[GT Accuracy]

But do you shoot horse flies while fireforming like butch does?

No we wait until the girls at the insurance agency walk by before we touch one off. You could power half of LA with their little engines running that hard hawlin down the road.

We laugh, they filp us off and laugh too. They are nice people - good hearted and can take a joke

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No we wait until the girls at the insurance agency walk by before we touch one off. You could power half of LA with their little engines running that hard hawlin down the road.

We laugh, they filp us off and laugh too. They are nice people - good hearted and can take a joke

I touched off a 280ack case worth of bullseye just as my neighbor walked by my shop taking her kids to play on my daughters playground. She said i coulda just told her not to go over there instead of shooting at her! Sure hope she was wearing panties by the look on her face