Help with problem measuring lands
- Thread starter Pigdog
- Start date
I have been using the split case neck method for many years now.
Using a 1mm (.039”) cut off wheel on a Dremel takes merely seconds to do. Neck size it, or use a bushing or FL die, place the bullet in long and carefully chamber it, close the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed and lift the bolt handle up and down a few times, carefully extract and measure. Repeat several times to be sure you are getting an accurate number.
If a bullet sticks and pulls out, try a little spray oil like WD-40 on the bullet, this generally stops the sticking.
I have used the Wheeler method, Hornady method and a brass dowel with lockable sleeves.
The above method is just as good as the others for accuracy, but is much faster.
Cheers.
Using a 1mm (.039”) cut off wheel on a Dremel takes merely seconds to do. Neck size it, or use a bushing or FL die, place the bullet in long and carefully chamber it, close the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed and lift the bolt handle up and down a few times, carefully extract and measure. Repeat several times to be sure you are getting an accurate number.
If a bullet sticks and pulls out, try a little spray oil like WD-40 on the bullet, this generally stops the sticking.
I have used the Wheeler method, Hornady method and a brass dowel with lockable sleeves.
The above method is just as good as the others for accuracy, but is much faster.
Cheers.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I like the steel wool and jewelers loupe method myself. You can watch the lands go from rectangle to square to touch
Another way to use the Hornaday modified case and tool is to FL size the case and seat your bullet long. Slide it in the chamber with a firm push and retract. If it sticks, it's in the lands. Seat a bit deeper and repeat until you feel it just touching.
If you want to use your fire formed cases, drill to fit your cleaning rod (I use 6-32) and use as above. I keep a case with bullet seated to the lands for each bullet and caliper. That way I can check later for throat erosion, or a new batch of bullets that might seat differently.
If you want to use your fire formed cases, drill to fit your cleaning rod (I use 6-32) and use as above. I keep a case with bullet seated to the lands for each bullet and caliper. That way I can check later for throat erosion, or a new batch of bullets that might seat differently.
A smith called to explain to me he had built 4 magnificent rifles, he did all of the work, he made the 7MMM Wildcat reamer, he had help making the dies from a genius of a gunsmith.
One of the rifles shot like a shotgun as in patterns and the other three shot one hold groups. He gave ever smith he knew a chance to help him; mothing.
He called to ask me where I would start so I gave him enough information to get lost because he went straight the to the reloading forums. Someone sold him on the ideal I was talking about the stick and drawing/scribing lines. It was not long before he called me to explain he was more confused that when he started.
He brought the rifle to me without the reamer, he claimed he broke it. I used a simpler method that requires less time. After preparing his cases I used the heavies/longest 7MM bullets I had, the bullets weighted 200 grains.
During the test I pushed the bullet out of the case and into the throat, the bullet traveled down the throat and finally hit the rifling. I have 64 chamber reamers, I have access to 240 more. I could not find a reamer long enough to clean up his chamber meaning he had to move the barrel back or start with another barrel.
I understand how difficult it is for reloaders to keep up but there was no way I could make a transfer. When he returned home he said he could not find the tools we used on the Internet. I explained to him we made the tools before we tested the length of his chamber from the rifling at the end of the throat to the bolt face.
F. Guffey
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Exactly our sentiments.
Man that sounds like a world class gunsmith!
If one were to seek your advice where would they go? I know I need help every once in a while but nobody in the precision shooting world I live in has ever known you?
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
And why would you? He admittedly led the fella astray, thats just plain ornery.
The Guff has not demonstrated any desire to help other people. His rhetoric is demeaning and contrary to the spirit of this forum.
CW
Some reload to shoot, I guess some shoot to reload, and then.........there’s whatever world you know who lives in.
moondog
Gold $$ Contributor
Wait, what?
This...
An old friend made a neat little setup, based on the same principle:
Set one stop against boltface, and set other stop against bullet tip. Ya just hold a bullet in the lands with a small dowel, and can even feel the difference between the bullet 'touching' lands, or 'jamming' to a hard stop. I use the 'jam' length as reference point, as you can only seat a bullet backwards from that point!
What I do is to measure with several bullets of the same lot, then correspond that data to a CBTO 'average' to reference back to. As has been noted above, the variability of ogive is smaller than OAL, due to bullet tip inconsistency. Naturally, I keep the one bullet that measures the exact 'average', for future measuring of throat erosion...
Easy peasy!
pigdog-
As stated above, use a wooden dowel to push the bullet down back into the chamber. Using a rod is only going to damage the threading on the rod. If you use a rod with a pointed jag on it with a hollow point bullet, it will worse. You can get the wooden dowels at any crafts store. Bring calipers and not the rifle into the store to make sure you will have a fit.
As stated above, use a wooden dowel to push the bullet down back into the chamber. Using a rod is only going to damage the threading on the rod. If you use a rod with a pointed jag on it with a hollow point bullet, it will worse. You can get the wooden dowels at any crafts store. Bring calipers and not the rifle into the store to make sure you will have a fit.
pat fulghum
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Here is the link
Other good videos that you should watch at least once... https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos
Make sure you run a patch through before firing. One never knows when a splinter may fall off and remain in your barrel. I wish I had posted as you did. I ruined a perfectly good Dewey rod pushing the bullet back into the chamber.
Thanks, I haven't even checked the threads on my boretech rod they are probably stuffed now too!!!! I woulda done it at least 20 times with that rod pushing a bullet out will check that when I get home.
mike06
US ARMY 1970-1977
I have the LTL Tool and it is very precise and quick saves a bunch of time.Here is another option.
I have added some more illustrations of the LTL Gauge to help answer the question "how does this thing work?". People also ask "why is this better than the Hornady gauge or the stripped bolt method?" Here are some of the reasons;
As always more information can be found on the Dead Center Sports website.
- The brass is mechanically locked in the chamber instead of held by hand.
- The bullet stops against the lands by means of an adjustable clutch mechanism not by "feel" such as pushing on a rod or closing the bolt.
- Measurements are taken identically to your loaded ammo with the calipers centered and square to the case head.
- No bolt disassembly/reassembly or extractor modifications required.
- No need to repeatedly move the case from the rifle to the seating die.
- Consistency. Repeatability. Adjustability. Accuracy.
Thanks for your interest,
Mike
Pigdog
Soft seating your bullets are sticking in the rifling . You must be using a bushing die . Use a standard neck die , it will have more tension , when seating long at first your bolt should not close . It does take some time lowering the bullet slightly in the die and chambering each time , once it chambers with a slight resistance then you can color the bullet with a marker until you reach your zero . Record that measurement to seat for jump or jam , also check every 500 rounds for wear . Some benchrest shooters soft seat with a neck tension of.001 when a jam shoots best in their rifle.
Soft seating your bullets are sticking in the rifling . You must be using a bushing die . Use a standard neck die , it will have more tension , when seating long at first your bolt should not close . It does take some time lowering the bullet slightly in the die and chambering each time , once it chambers with a slight resistance then you can color the bullet with a marker until you reach your zero . Record that measurement to seat for jump or jam , also check every 500 rounds for wear . Some benchrest shooters soft seat with a neck tension of.001 when a jam shoots best in their rifle.
Alex's method for sure. Strip your bolt. No shortcuts. When you start to close your bolt and you can see that it is going to force the bullet into the lands stop and take the bullet out and shorten it up about .005 and try it again. There is no need to jam it into the lands. When your bolt handle goes about 1/2 way down shorten the it up by .002. When the bolt handle is all the way down shorten by .001. Before you put your bolt back together repeat the process with any other bullet you plan to shoot. This works very well for me.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.