Help with problem measuring lands

[mharpster]

Guys looking for some help here . I'm getting extremely frustrated trying to measure my seating depth to the lands with some 130berger vld. I have used the method where you seat bullet long and chamber round and take it out to measure no problems with lapua scenars. This is my first experience with vld bullets and everytime I do this the bullets are getting stuck in the lands!!!! I have seen Alex wheelers video and tried this as well but same issue bullets keep getting stuck. I have tried using a neck sized case and soft seating I have tried partially neck sizing a case so that there is only a bit of tension on bullet I have tried fired cases with no neck sizing all have the same result of stuck bullets!!

I'm starting to get worried about putting the cleaning rod down the barrel so much to remove stuck bullets that it's going to damage barrel. It's a 6.5x47l. I don't have the machine skills to make the custom case method for the hornady tool.

What can I do?? All I want is a base line touch length so I have a number to do some seating depth tests from.

Here is another option.
I have added some more illustrations of the LTL Gauge to help answer the question "how does this thing work?". People also ask "why is this better than the Hornady gauge or the stripped bolt method?" Here are some of the reasons;

• The brass is mechanically locked in the chamber instead of held by hand.
• The bullet stops against the lands by means of an adjustable clutch mechanism not by "feel" such as pushing on a rod or closing the bolt.
• Measurements are taken identically to your loaded ammo with the calipers centered and square to the case head.
• No bolt disassembly/reassembly or extractor modifications required.
• No need to repeatedly move the case from the rifle to the seating die.
• Consistency. Repeatability. Adjustability. Accuracy.

As always more information can be found on the Dead Center Sports website.
Thanks for your interest,
Mike

 

[JFrank]

Here is another option.
I have added some more illustrations of the LTL Gauge to help answer the question "how does this thing work?". People also ask "why is this better than the Hornady gauge or the stripped bolt method?" Here are some of the reasons;

• The brass is mechanically locked in the chamber instead of held by hand.
• The bullet stops against the lands by means of an adjustable clutch mechanism not by "feel" such as pushing on a rod or closing the bolt.
• Measurements are taken identically to your loaded ammo with the calipers centered and square to the case head.
• No bolt disassembly/reassembly or extractor modifications required.
• No need to repeatedly move the case from the rifle to the seating die.
• Consistency. Repeatability. Adjustability. Accuracy.

As always more information can be found on the Dead Center Sports website.
Thanks for your interest,
Mike

That's a nice tool, I'm just to cheap to buy one.

 

[Pigdog]

Homerange's suggestion uses the dowel to measure. After doing his method, I'd suggest loading that bullet into a case at the measured COAL and then measure the CBTO.

Yup this is exactly what I planned to do.

 

[Homerange]

Homerange's suggestion uses the dowel to measure. After doing his method, I'd suggest loading that bullet into a case at the measured COAL and then measure the CBTO.

Yes it's a very simple way to get you to some close reference point/measurement from which you have something to work with. Exact NO as others have mentioned the oglive measurement varies within production lots.
IMHO a dowel will not give as accurate results as a rod but additional thought needs be given to the type/brand of rod. Mine are all old Parker Hale types so have a male threaded end, big enough to bridge the firing pin hole and also properly contact the bullet tip.
It's just a KISS method with what I had on hand and good enough to get my hunting rifles to clover leaf or better @ 100.
Others requirements might be more precise.

 

[JimSC]

not a Benchrester here either but my 2 cents worth. My feeling is that if the OP is getting his bullets stuck they need to lighten up on the neck tension on the testing case.

It's best to start with only the first few thousandths of the neck getting sized the gradually increasing it until a sweet spot is reached. I back the bushing screw all the way out w/o a expander button in the die, full length size leaving the case fully inserted in the die. The I start tightening the bushing adjustment down, you will know when you hit the neck. Lower the press handle tighten the adjustment one turn and size the case. Remove it from the press and try and insert a bullet with your fingers. Seat the bullet and try and pull it out with your fingers. If you can push it in or pull it out then put the rezising die back in and screw the bushing adjustment down a half turn and resize. Keep doing this to the point you can no longer push the bullet in or pull the bullet with your fingers. That's the proper tension for finding the lands. You do not want to dig a groove into the jacket which would ruin the results anyway. Then as long as you don't hamfist the comparitor when measuring you can get a good baseline datum

I also like to use a little Imperial inside the neck and give case a pass with a Forster inside neck reamer before sizing to make sure the neck is consistent and no doughnuts are hiding. Many also recommend removing the ejector before chambering. Never had a bullet stick since I began doing this way.

Swapping in a bushing that only gives .001 compression might accomplish the same thing without all the tweaking, I might try that one day

 

[Pigdog]

just to follow up I got some dowel today and used this method and it worked a treat, thanks again yall

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have been using the split case neck method for many years now.
Using a 1mm (.039”) cut off wheel on a Dremel takes merely seconds to do. Neck size it, or use a bushing or FL die, place the bullet in long and carefully chamber it, close the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed and lift the bolt handle up and down a few times, carefully extract and measure. Repeat several times to be sure you are getting an accurate number.
If a bullet sticks and pulls out, try a little spray oil like WD-40 on the bullet, this generally stops the sticking.

I have used the Wheeler method, Hornady method and a brass dowel with lockable sleeves.
The above method is just as good as the others for accuracy, but is much faster.

Cheers.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I like the steel wool and jewelers loupe method myself. You can watch the lands go from rectangle to square to touch

 

[Texas10]

Another way to use the Hornaday modified case and tool is to FL size the case and seat your bullet long. Slide it in the chamber with a firm push and retract. If it sticks, it's in the lands. Seat a bit deeper and repeat until you feel it just touching.

If you want to use your fire formed cases, drill to fit your cleaning rod (I use 6-32) and use as above. I keep a case with bullet seated to the lands for each bullet and caliper. That way I can check later for throat erosion, or a new batch of bullets that might seat differently.

 

[fguffey]

Yup this is exactly what I planned to do.

A smith called to explain to me he had built 4 magnificent rifles, he did all of the work, he made the 7MMM Wildcat reamer, he had help making the dies from a genius of a gunsmith.

One of the rifles shot like a shotgun as in patterns and the other three shot one hold groups. He gave ever smith he knew a chance to help him; mothing.

He called to ask me where I would start so I gave him enough information to get lost because he went straight the to the reloading forums. Someone sold him on the ideal I was talking about the stick and drawing/scribing lines. It was not long before he called me to explain he was more confused that when he started.

He brought the rifle to me without the reamer, he claimed he broke it. I used a simpler method that requires less time. After preparing his cases I used the heavies/longest 7MM bullets I had, the bullets weighted 200 grains.

During the test I pushed the bullet out of the case and into the throat, the bullet traveled down the throat and finally hit the rifling. I have 64 chamber reamers, I have access to 240 more. I could not find a reamer long enough to clean up his chamber meaning he had to move the barrel back or start with another barrel.

I understand how difficult it is for reloaders to keep up but there was no way I could make a transfer. When he returned home he said he could not find the tools we used on the Internet. I explained to him we made the tools before we tested the length of his chamber from the rifling at the end of the throat to the bolt face.

F. Guffey

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A smith called me.....

He called to ask me where I would start so I gave him enough information to get lost.....

It was not long before he called me to explain he was more confused that when he started.


F. Guffey

Exactly our sentiments.

Man that sounds like a world class gunsmith!

If one were to seek your advice where would they go? I know I need help every once in a while but nobody in the precision shooting world I live in has ever known you?

 

[Mulligan]

Exactly our sentiments.

Man that sounds like a world class gunsmith!

If one were to seek your advice where would they go? I know I need help every once in a while but nobody in the precision shooting world I live in has ever known you?

And why would you? He admittedly led the fella astray, thats just plain ornery.
The Guff has not demonstrated any desire to help other people. His rhetoric is demeaning and contrary to the spirit of this forum.
CW

 

[WillyTP]

I understand how difficult it is for reloaders

F. Guffey

Exactly our sentiments.

Man that sounds like a world class gunsmith!

If one were to seek your advice where would they go? I know I need help every once in a while but nobody in the precision shooting world I live in has ever known you?

Some reload to shoot, I guess some shoot to reload, and then.........there’s whatever world you know who lives in.

 

[moondog]

A smith called to explain to me he had built 4 magnificent rifles, he did all of the work, he made the 7MMM Wildcat reamer, he had help making the dies from a genius of a gunsmith.

One of the rifles shot like a shotgun as in patterns and the other three shot one hold groups. He gave ever smith he knew a chance to help him; mothing.

He called to ask me where I would start so I gave him enough information to get lost because he went straight the to the reloading forums. Someone sold him on the ideal I was talking about the stick and drawing/scribing lines. It was not long before he called me to explain he was more confused that when he started.

He brought the rifle to me without the reamer, he claimed he broke it. I used a simpler method that requires less time. After preparing his cases I used the heavies/longest 7MM bullets I had, the bullets weighted 200 grains.

During the test I pushed the bullet out of the case and into the throat, the bullet traveled down the throat and finally hit the rifling. I have 64 chamber reamers, I have access to 240 more. I could not find a reamer long enough to clean up his chamber meaning he had to move the barrel back or start with another barrel.

I understand how difficult it is for reloaders to keep up but there was no way I could make a transfer. When he returned home he said he could not find the tools we used on the Internet. I explained to him we made the tools before we tested the length of his chamber from the rifling at the end of the throat to the bolt face.

F. Guffey

Wait, what?

 

[fredo]

Not if you use dedicated bullets which you know the base to ogive and base to tip, which I do. Many ways to skin a cat.

This...
An old friend made a neat little setup, based on the same principle:

Set one stop against boltface, and set other stop against bullet tip. Ya just hold a bullet in the lands with a small dowel, and can even feel the difference between the bullet 'touching' lands, or 'jamming' to a hard stop. I use the 'jam' length as reference point, as you can only seat a bullet backwards from that point!

What I do is to measure with several bullets of the same lot, then correspond that data to a CBTO 'average' to reference back to. As has been noted above, the variability of ogive is smaller than OAL, due to bullet tip inconsistency. Naturally, I keep the one bullet that measures the exact 'average', for future measuring of throat erosion...

Easy peasy!

 

[Delfuego]

Another +1 for the Sinclair tool. One tool all calibers and no modified cases.

 

[Fotheringill]

pigdog-

As stated above, use a wooden dowel to push the bullet down back into the chamber. Using a rod is only going to damage the threading on the rod. If you use a rod with a pointed jag on it with a hollow point bullet, it will worse. You can get the wooden dowels at any crafts store. Bring calipers and not the rifle into the store to make sure you will have a fit.

 

[JBO]

Watch Alex Wheeler's video and you never have a problem again.

 

[pat fulghum]

Watch Alex Wheeler's video and you never have a problem again.

Here is the link

Other good videos that you should watch at least once... https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos

 

[Fotheringill]

just to follow up I got some dowel today and used this method and it worked a treat, thanks again yall

Make sure you run a patch through before firing. One never knows when a splinter may fall off and remain in your barrel. I wish I had posted as you did. I ruined a perfectly good Dewey rod pushing the bullet back into the chamber.