COAL question

[cujimmy]

Guys a bit confused here have loaded up some rounds with .223 SGK 55grn at the accuracy load and Sierra say COAL of 2.250" and thats what I have been setting them at , now I have some Hornady .223 40grn Vmax (BT ) and have been looking at a few manuals and reading a bit and average COAL is 2.200 - 2.225" , and a lot of guys are saying that 26Grns of VVn133 is a good load, however when I get to 25.5grns I am starting to come up the neck and to seat the bullet at 2.200 I would be crunshing powder there is no way I would get 26 grns in there lol I have loaded 5 at 25grns and COAL of 2.250" the brass I am using is Sako and trimmed to 1.750 can anyone explain this lol tks PS my case capacity av for 5 cases was 30.12

 

[dedogs]

trimmed to 2.750

It would help if we knew what cartridge you are loading. dedogs

 

[cujimmy]

It would help if we knew what cartridge you are loading. dedogs

Sorry guys its for the .223 Rem

 

[dedogs]

trimmed to 2.750

You still haven't fixed this # which is part of the confusion. dedogs

 

[dolek]

You will need to find the lands in your rifle and determine your length from there. You may have plenty of room for powder.

 

[cujimmy]

You still haven't fixed this # which is part of the confusion. dedogs

done

 

[spclark]

Loads listed in manuals are always a good place to start but as you gain experience with your loading practices and the rifles you shoot, most find they can move away from the specifics defined in those manuals towards loads that are better suited to their particular equipment (powder selection and weight, primer choice, chamber dimensions, barrel bore twist and length, bullet brand and weight, COAL as measured by distance bullet ogive is seated before contacting rifling lands instead of base-to-bullet tip dimension, etc.) for their particular shooting needs.

Which is why places like this Forum are such a great resource where we can share our collective knowledge.

That 2.25" dimension ironically is commonly quoted for loads intended to be loaded and fired from a magazine in AR-15 - style semi-automatics chambered for 223REM. It's not always best for use in other rifles that can accommodate loads with bullets seated farther out.

If you have the means to determine just where those 55's begin to contact your rifle's lands (Hornady LnL gauge or similar) you'll have more confidence loading at or above that 26 grain point, believe me. You may find you can load to 2.40" or maybe even longer... as long as there's still enough bullet bearing surface in those case necks to hold 'em securely!

 

[cujimmy]

Loads listed in manuals are always a good place to start but as you gain experience with your loading practices and the rifles you shoot, most find they can move away from the specifics defined in those manuals towards loads that are better suited to their particular equipment (powder selection and weight, primer choice, chamber dimensions, barrel bore twist and length, bullet brand and weight, COAL as measured by distance bullet ogive is seated before contacting rifling lands instead of base-to-bullet tip dimension, etc.) for their particular shooting needs.

Which is why places like this Forum are such a great resource where we can share our collective knowledge.

That 2.25" dimension ironically is commonly quoted for loads intended to be loaded and fired from a magazine in AR-15 - style semi-automatics chambered for 223REM. It's not always best for use in other rifles that can accommodate loads with bullets seated farther out.

If you have the means to determine just where those 55's begin to contact your rifle's lands (Hornady LnL gauge or similar) you'll have more confidence loading at or above that 26 grain point, believe me. You may find you can load to 2.40" or maybe even longer... as long as there's still enough bullet bearing surface in those case necks to hold 'em securely!

thanks so COAL in books is measured from head to Ogive and not head to tip, thats really put a spanner in the works as I thought it was head to tip , but even at that if I put 26grns of VVn133 in my case it would nearly full the neck

 

[dedogs]

so COAL in books is measured from head to Ogive and not head to tip,

No! COAL listed in re-loading manuals are referring to base to tip. What type of rifle are you re-loading for, bolt or AR? Also what twist and length of barrel? dedogs

 

[M-61]

Everything dedogs said plus: is your rifle magazine fed? I should ask if so, do you use the magazine or single load?

 

[cujimmy]

No! COAL listed in re-loading manuals are referring to base to tip. What type of rifle are you re-loading for, bolt or AR? Also what twist and length of barrel? dedogs

Remington 700 LVSF in .223 22"barrel 1 in 12 twist magazine fed Ogive reading using Hornady tool = 1.873 and 2.258" coal using a 55grn .224 Vmax thanks

 

[dedogs]

Remington 700 LVSF in .223 22"barrel 1 in 12 twist Ogive reading using Hornady tool = 1.873 and 2.258" coal using a 55grn .224 Vmax thanks

OK, Now we are getting somewhere. I'm not familiar with the magazine dimensions of the rifle you describe but as spclark mentioned above some bolt actions will allow a COAL longer than what is listed in most re-loading manuals. It's a trial and error affair...seat bullets longer until they won't fit. You probably don't know the free-bore on this rifle so there's another factor you'll have to determine with trial and error. Alex Wheeler's stripped bolt method works well for me and others as well. Do a search on here and get ready to read a bunch of opinions and alternative methods for finding the lands in a chamber. As spclark mentions, be sure you have enough bullet seated in the neck to firmly hold the bullet especially if feeding from the magazine. Single shot feeding is another option and may allow seating the bullet longer still.
If after all this you still have difficulty dispensing enough of a chosen load into the case, you may need to employ a drop-tube in your loading regimen. If you find you are compressing your chosen powder be aware that the powder may push the bullet back out after the bullet is seated thus changing your COAL. I personally would look for a different powder--there are so many options out there for .223 that it may not be worth the hassle to cram so much powder into your case. YMMV. dedogs

 

[cujimmy]

this is my chamber or freebore Ogive reading using Hornady tool = 1.873 and 2.258" coal using a 55grn .224 Vmax thanks

 

[dedogs]

2.258" coal using a 55grn .224 Vma

Does the rifle allow you to cycle a round this length through the magazine? How far is the bullet seated into the case at this length? Please check this with a dummy round. dedogs

 

[cujimmy]

Set up a case with slight neck tension using the lee collet die , and seated to 2.258 put it in the mag and cycled ok closed the bolt and checked COAL again and it was at 2.256 don this a couple of times and 2.256 and an Ogive reading of 1.870 thanks

 

[dedogs]

it was at 2.256

Any rifling marks at the ogive? Or scratch marks down near the transition of bullet to case neck? dedogs

 

[K22]

First thing I do when I have a new rifle is to determine the max COL for the bullet I intend to use. This is easy to do. I use a homemade version if the Frankfort Arsenal tool.

I start load development at .015 to .020" off the lands provided I have enough bullet tension and the round will fit the magazine. I like the bullet seated at least one bullet diameter into the case to provide adequate bullet tension. I don't seat closer than .010" to lands because I'm primarily a hunter and don't want to end up with a bullet stuck in the lands. Also, the ogive of even high quality bullets can vary quite a bit so COL can also vary that why I allow the .010" to over compensate for ogive variations.

Most of my rifles shoot better with the bullet close to the lands, i.e. minimize the jump. However a have a few that shoot better seated further off the lands. I more or less standardized on .015 to .020" off lands and only vary COL in load development if nothing else is working to reduce group size to an acceptable level.

 

[cujimmy]

Any rifling marks at the ogive? Or scratch marks down near the transition of bullet to case neck? dedogs

Did not notice any but to be honest was not looking for any , as took it where it stopped when the bolt was closed that that was my max tks

 

[spclark]

thanks so COAL in books is measured from head to Ogive ...

No. COAL is base to tip of bullet.

Problem is bullets aren’t uniform in length so that can deceive you. Base-to-ogive is more important for accuracy loading but you need to know where your chamber’s lands begin to touch each bullet’s profile (ogive, the portion ahead of the bearing surface part) you use. That’s where the Hornady tools come into use.

And some go even further by sorting bullets by their base-to-ogive dimension. They’re manufactured products so some variations are inevitable.

 

[jo191145]

All good advice but as to your original problem. It’s called a drop tube. You’d be surprised how much extra powder you can fit in a case using different methodology.