Neck Tension Question

[David247]

I am seating 130 gr. Berger hybrids bullets for a 6.5 Creedmoor using a Wilson chamber seating die and an arbor press and force gauge. I have some that seat at roughly 40 pounds, an equal number that seat in the eighty pound range and a few that are over 100 pounds and I am not sure why.

Here is my process using Lapua brass: I decap, tumble, anneal with Amp annealer every loading, resize with Reading bushing type die with the de-capping rod and expander removed, resize inside of necks with a Sinclair mandrel die, prime, charge, and seat with Wilson chamber die and a K&M arbor press. I also just got a 21st Century hydro arbor press to see if I get a more accurate seating pressure reading but have not used it yet. All of the other normal brass prep work is also done like cleaning primer pockets, check COAL, and all brass gets trimmed, chamfered, and deburred using a Giraud unit. All cases are on their third reloading.

Any ideas why the seating force range might be so different from case to case?

Thanks

 

[Richard Coody]

have you sorted by seating force and seen a difference on the target?

what i found to get consistent seating force for 6br with my 21st century hydro press was turn brass to a uniform thickness, leave the carbon in the necks, don't tumble just wipe the outside of the case dampened with ballistol, anneal every firing, size with a harrell die, use k&m mandrel for final sizing trying mandrels from bullet diameter to .0005 to .001 smaller. best results was -.0005. could keep 90% in the 30 to 40 range which worked best in my rifle

 

[Mulligan]

I am seating 130 gr. Berger hybrids bullets for a 6.5 Creedmoor using a Wilson chamber seating die and an arbor press and force gauge. I have some that seat at roughly 40 pounds, an equal number that seat in the eighty pound range and a few that are over 100 pounds and I am not sure why.

Here is my process using Lapua brass: I decap, tumble, anneal with Amp annealer every loading, resize with Reading bushing type die with the de-capping rod and expander removed, resize inside of necks with a Sinclair mandrel die, prime, charge, and seat with Wilson chamber die and a K&M arbor press. I also just got a 21st Century hydro arbor press to see if I get a more accurate seating pressure reading but have not used it yet. All of the other normal brass prep work is also done like cleaning primer pockets, check COAL, and all brass gets trimmed, chamfered, and deburred using a Giraud unit. All cases are on their third reloading.

Any ideas why the seating force range might be so different from case to case?

Thanks

I asked the same question a while back.
below is the thread.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/significant-increase-in-seating-pressure-why.3941627/

Check it out
CW

 

[JFrank]

After annealing you may have toasted Carbon debris inside the neck, a nylon brush should smooth that out .FYI don't say NT you'll wake him up

 

[fguffey]

I am seating 130 gr. Berger hybrids bullets for a 6.5 Creedmoor using a Wilson chamber seating die and an arbor press and force gauge. I have some that seat at roughly 40 pounds, an equal number that seat in the eighty pound range and a few that are over 100 pounds and I am not sure why.

No one on this forum can answer your question because they are so infatuated with tensions.. I have insisted tensions is cute and an easy way to explain everything a bench rester does not understand. For years bench resters have chosen to ignore the case can have resistance to sizing. I suggest you sort your cases according to the amount of effort necessary to seat the bullet. And then you can start over by studying annealing and the effect time has on the neck releasing the bullet.

F. Guffey

 

[Mulligan]

No one on this forum can answer your question because they are so infatuated with tensions.. I have insisted tensions is cute and an easy way to explain everything a bench rester does not understand. For years bench resters have chosen to ignore the case can have resistance to sizing. I suggest you sort your cases according to the amount of effort necessary to seat the bullet. And then you can start over by studying annealing and the effect time has on the neck releasing the bullet.

F. Guffey

 

[JFrank]

Too late

 

[dsculley]

Amazing how people mock that which they don't understand.

 

[dedogs]

No one on this forum can answer your question because they are so infatuated with tensions.

Your disdain and criticism of the methods and techniques employed on this web-site are becoming VERY TIRESOME. why don't you just..... Go Away! dedogs

 

[JFrank]

Amazing how people mock that which they don't understand.

For me
It's not the lesson it's the delivery,
I may be one of the few that follows FG then try's to apply the information.
That's for real !!

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Wild guess here, but any chance you've got your giraud adjusted to where it doesn't hit the mouth on some pieces of brass (i.e. leaving it unchamfered)?

 

[Milo 2.0]

I may be one of the few that follows FG then try's to apply the information.
!

Hmmmgh, you mean you are trying to "Transfer" the info?

 

[JFrank]

Everyone transfers,

 

[luckeeshot]

Hmmmgh, you mean you are trying to "Transfer" the info?

sorry but my F.Guffey translator is out dated and I'll admit to being a noob when it comes to reloading for accuracy , it sure is a distraction to argue over nomenclature

 

[dsculley]

Not everyone is gifted with eloquence. But then, Mr. Guffey doesn't try to tell you how to do things, he tries to make you think for yourself. Unfortunately that is becoming a lost skill. To throw stones (figuratively) at someone you don't understand is at best childish. I would have thought most of the members here were above that, but I guess I was wrong.

FWIW, G David Tubb was an early member of a very popular site. The keyboard commandos treated his posts much like Guffey's are here. After a very few months, he quit posting. They ran off one of the best sources of information to ever post on the site.

If you read a post you either don't understand or don't agree with, you can choose to either ignore it, reply in a civil manner, or belittle yourself by trying to belittle the other member.

 

[fguffey]

If you read a post you either don't understand or don't agree with, you can choose to either ignore it, reply in a civil manner, or belittle yourself by trying to belittle the other member.

I was off minding my business when someone on this forum ask for help. He thought I could help because the big problem on this forum was a big problem on another forum, This problem was kicking everyone is all 7 knees, that was the right and left knee, both sides of their hi-knee, both kidneys and their we-knees. Anyhow he got barred from the other forum and then another and for my efforts I got suspended for a few/short time. I did not make any friends and the moderator has not gotten over it yet because I went after the forum. He accused Big Ed of being overt and he accused me of being covert. No one that understands what happened in the south during voter registrations drives would ever use that terminology because what happened to the freedom marchers was overt and the effort to cover the crimes by law enforcement was covert.


Anyhow that moderator just walks alone and Ed did not bother me because I have Alabama Leg dog experience thanks to ALABAMA BLUE PIT.

F. Guffey

 

[Milo 2.0]

Not everyone is gifted with eloquence. But then, Mr. Guffey doesn't try to tell you how to do things, he tries to make you think for yourself. Unfortunately that is becoming a lost skill. To throw stones (figuratively) at someone you don't understand is at best childish. I would have thought most of the members here were above that, but I guess I was wrong.

FWIW, G David Tubb was an early member of a very popular site. The keyboard commandos treated his posts much like Guffey's are here. After a very few months, he quit posting. They ran off one of the best sources of information to ever post on the site.

If you read a post you either don't understand or don't agree with, you can choose to either ignore it, reply in a civil manner, or belittle yourself by trying to belittle the other member.

Well hallelujah, fguffy has a disciple. Wow, through your philosophical ramblings, not only have you told me that your are more intelligent than myself, just like the guff does daily, but you are also a better human being.

I guess as long as you are aboard the Guffy Express and understand what he says, take it upon yourself to put it in layman's terms, so idiots like myself can understand it.

 

[David247]

Wild guess here, but any chance you've got your giraud adjusted to where it doesn't hit the mouth on some pieces of brass (i.e. leaving it unchamfered)?

No, they are all chamfered.

 

[David247]

I

have you sorted by seating force and seen a difference on the target?

what i found to get consistent seating force for 6br with my 21st century hydro press was turn brass to a uniform thickness, leave the carbon in the necks, don't tumble just wipe the outside of the case dampened with ballistol, anneal every firing, size with a harrell die, use k&m mandrel for final sizing trying mandrels from bullet diameter to .0005 to .001 smaller. best results was -.0005. could keep 90% in the 30 to 40 range which worked best in my rifle

I have sorted them into three groups, light, medium, and hard but did not notice too much verticle difference, just curious why it happens.

I will turn them to see if that changes anything.

My mandrel is .001

 

[dkhunt14]

Not everyone is gifted with eloquence. But then, Mr. Guffey doesn't try to tell you how to do things, he tries to make you think for yourself. Unfortunately that is becoming a lost skill. To throw stones (figuratively) at someone you don't understand is at best childish. I would have thought most of the members here were above that, but I guess I was wrong.

FWIW, G David Tubb was an early member of a very popular site. The keyboard commandos treated his posts much like Guffey's are here. After a very few months, he quit posting. They ran off one of the best sources of information to ever post on the site.

If you read a post you either don't understand or don't agree with, you can choose to either ignore it, reply in a civil manner, or belittle yourself by trying to belittle the other member.

He actually never tells anything and never answers guestions. His methods are so outdated and would never win matches. He even goes against what companies call things. This is not bashing him, it is just facts. This is ACCURATE SHOOTER and he should be giving tips instead of the broken record routine. Matt