Remington strikes again.......

[msinc]

Good friend of mine won a handgun in a local gun raffle. He has no use for a handgun and the dealer tells him that he can get anything he wants as long as he pays the difference in price. He opts for a Remington Model Seven Predator. He brings it to me for a trigger and scope mounting. He also asks me to zero the rifle.
To my range I go and with some difficulty I get it pretty well zeroed. It will put three rounds in about an inch or so with good reloads, but it always throws two more rounds well out of the group. I borescope it to find that it only has throat on one side of the bore. Nice smooth perfect looking throat ramp halfway around the bore. The other half is rifling all the way to the step where the case mouth will sit. I noticed that it didn't quite feel right when I would chamber a round.
I have the exact same rifle and mine shoots pretty good for a factory gun, even with the ridiculous tupperware stock. The reloads that I seated to be .005" off the rifling get the bullets engraved only on the one side in his rifle........
I am sure they will send him a new rifle, but how in the kingdom of cat schitt does someone chamber a rifle like this?????? If Remington worried as much about their machine work as they do stopping anyone from adjusting their triggers they might produce some decent rifles.
I really wish I had photo capabilities with my borescope, but then again you cant make this up.

 

[ckaberna]

High speed CNC production, something worn/moved with no quality control ”smith” may have been on break while that one was cut?
Quality costs too much when a lot of folks don’t know the difference. Sad.

Imho

 

[270WinDude]

Nice point about the trigger. As a newcomer to the sport I get a little perturbed that I can't adjust my trigger low enough to notice a difference when I know it would be a simple fix for the manufacturer.

 

[memilanuk]

I've seen similar results in factory barrels from another brand. On a *target* rifle.

Long story made very short... for hunting type rifles, they have *one* pilot for the chamber reamer for the given caliber / cartridge. They don't have the 'luxury' of time to sit there and use range rods to get the pilot sized to within a couple ten-thousandths like your friendly custom gunsmith. They use that *one* pilot for *every* barrel - and it has to be able to fit in the smallest possible bore diameter for that particular caliber that they might encounter - every process has plus/minus tolerances. So in order for it to not bind up and break on the tightest bore, it is by definition sloppy loose on the biggest ones. Get a chip in alongside that pilot, it pushes the whole reamer over, and voila, you have rifling all the way down to the chamber mouth.

I don't know that it's necessarily the cause of your accuracy woes, though. In my particular case, we'd rebarreled the rifle (with factory barrels) following the 2007 FCNC. After I got it back and looked at it and said 'hell no', we compared it to the 'old' barrel - which was actually almost *worse*. Still, it had shot well enough to take 2nd FTR @ the US FCNC shooting B155.5BTs, so...

After much bitching and complaining on our part though, at least one company decided to modify their approach to chambering at least their 'target' rifle barrels. Still not matching individual pilots to individual barrels like a custom gunsmith, but the process was a big step forward from what it was. Not cost effective though on a run-of-the-mill hunting rifle, though.

 

[snert]

Are not Remingtons hammer forged? How does one make part of that go away with the reamer? I am not very smart, and this is an honest question, so if a mechanical type can 'splain it to me in simpleton words I would be obliged.

 

[msinc]

Nice point about the trigger. As a newcomer to the sport I get a little perturbed that I can't adjust my trigger low enough to notice a difference when I know it would be a simple fix for the manufacturer.

Yes, I think it is asinine that they can manufacture a trigger...that is adjustable and then fix it so: A. You only have the luxury of adjusting it from 12 all the way down to 10 pounds. {as if that is really going to do anybody any good!!!} and B. The other adjustments, the ones that will allow it to go on down to reasonable are sealed immovable in place with permanent red Loc-Tite. and lets not forget that they install extra super soft alloy steel Allen adjuster screws so that they immediately strip out when you do try the move them. It's like gee Remington since you really have accomplished zero for us why not just put a BB gun trigger on the rifles you make and charge $100 less on the MSRP?????

Not necessarily

Could you please clarify sir??????

Are not Remingtons hammer forged? How does one make part of that go away with the reamer? I am not very smart, and this is an honest question, so if a mechanical type can 'splain it to me in simpleton words I would be obliged.

Not sure what you mean Snert...they don't hammer forge in the chamber, just the rifling and initial rough outer contour of the barrel...after that it gets machined like any other barrel. "make part of that go away with the reamer"??? I might have done a bad job of explaining the problem. In this case, based on what I see at the throat it appears that the chamber might be at a pretty good angle to the centerline of the bore. But, I mean, as bad as it is someone would have had to set this thing up on the lathe that way. What I cant wrap my cabeza around is how do you get a reamer deep enough to headspace and have rifling left half way around the chamber????

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I would be willing to bet they use a solid pilot reamer. There is absolutely no reason to use a live pilot reamer. And no reason at all to shoot 5 shot groups from a model seven barrel- 2 shot groups tell the tale on a hunting rifle like that

 

[hoz53]

Yes, I think it is asinine that they can manufacture a trigger...that is adjustable and then fix it so: A. You only have the luxury of adjusting it from 12 all the way down to 10 pounds. {as if that is really going to do anybody any good!!!} and B. The other adjustments, the ones that will allow it to go on down to reasonable are sealed immovable in place with permanent red Loc-Tite. and lets not forget that they install extra super soft alloy steel Allen adjuster screws so that they immediately strip out when you do try the move them. It's like gee Remington since you really have accomplished zero for us why not just put a BB gun trigger on the rifles you make and charge $100 less on the MSRP?????



Could you please clarify sir??????



Not sure what you mean Snert...they don't hammer forge in the chamber, just the rifling and initial rough outer contour of the barrel...after that it gets machined like any other barrel. "make part of that go away with the reamer"??? I might have done a bad job of explaining the problem. In this case, based on what I see at the throat it appears that the chamber might be at a pretty good angle to the centerline of the bore. But, I mean, as bad as it is someone would have had to set this thing up on the lathe that way. What I cant wrap my cabeza around is how do you get a reamer deep enough to headspace and have rifling left half way around the chamber????

Yes I wonder how much an Xmark trigger adds to the cost of the gun. I could provide them some to put on the guns I’ll buy so i get a discount

I have had Remington’s with what appears to be reamer run in crooked to the bore. They looked just like you say as far a rifling. I to wondered how they could run the reamer in that crooked. Mabie someone can explain it.
With the advent of CNC I wonder if any companies are cutting their chambers that way instead of using a reamer.

 

[JimT]

Yes I wonder how much an Xmark trigger adds to the cost of the gun. I could provide them some to put on the guns I’ll buy so i get a discount

I have had Remington’s with what appears to be reamer run in crooked to the bore. They looked just like you say as far a rifling. I to wondered how they could run the reamer in that crooked. Mabie someone can explain it.
With the advent of CNC I wonder if any companies are cutting their chambers that way instead of using a reamer.

Must be their unionized labor?? Can’t get fired, WTF, pass the joint!!!!

 

[Prose]

Remington switched to button barrels a few years back didn’t they?

 

[270WinDude]

I wish I still had a "garbage" Remington 770 that I bought and sold before I got into shooting recently. Out of curiosity mostly, I have a lot of assumptions I derived from it but no solid evidence. I shot it 1 time and it was at 300 yards and I can't remember the group size, I didn't care back then but I do remember it was significantly better then my step dads 308. My memory could be playing tricks on me but I think the action felt to me like higher quality then my new bergara. This was in 2013.

 

[msinc]

.......With the advent of CNC I wonder if any companies are cutting their chambers that way instead of using a reamer.

Yeah, the only way I can figure to cut a chamber and leave half the throat uncut with rifling completely intact would be if they were machining the entire chamber headspace, finish and all with a CNC driven boring bar. I just don't know how one would accomplish this with a reamer.
I have had several belted magnum rifles that had accuracy trouble and found that the headspace on the belt was correct, but the distance to the shoulder was way too long. Almost like they were using a two piece or "two step" reamer. Maybe they aren't using chambering reamers at all??? I have roughed chambers in with a boring bar and it works fine...but you are right, CNC would allow the final finishing of a chamber with a boring bar or similar tooling. This thing almost looks like I could take a finish reamer, run it lightly into the chamber by hand and correct the throat because there is nothing all gunched up further down the bore on the side that was cut to denote severe misalignment. I am stumped on how one would do this.

Remington switched to button barrels a few years back didn’t they?

It sure appears so in my borescope. I see a lot of tooling marks similar to the ones I see in Douglas and Shilen barrels. If they are hammer forged barrels then they are doing a very poor job of grinding the mandrel...in fact, I don't know if you can grind one this badly. This rifle reminds me of the motivational photo of a freshly painted white line on the side of a highway that goes right over a dried up dead coyote...the caption reads "Quality, that's not my job!!"

 

[boltfluter]

With a solid reamer set up, it is very easy to make a reamer cut like a boring bar, just by being off center. With Remingtons situation in the market at the moment, they should really be upping their game. Just my personal opinion.

Paul

 

[spitfire_er]

I've put together a few rifles from random left over parts over the years. Had a Remington barrel with the same issue, 1/2 the throat cut too deep. Set it back, and rechambered it and it was a solid 1/2"-3/4" moa barrel.

with a little more QC on the chambering side of things, they would be putting out more accurate rifles overall.

 

[Downhill]

It is a horrible shame that the "management guys" at Remington have degraded the quality of the 700's to embarrassing. It was once the flagship of bolt guns. Not so much anymore. If buying factory and expecting quality go with a Tikka T3.

 

[dminn1]

Yes, I think it is asinine that they can manufacture a trigger...that is adjustable and then fix it so: A. You only have the luxury of adjusting it from 12 all the way down to 10 pounds. {as if that is really going to do anybody any good!!!} and B. The other adjustments, the ones that will allow it to go on down to reasonable are sealed immovable in place with permanent red Loc-Tite. and lets not forget that they install extra super soft alloy steel Allen adjuster screws so that they immediately strip out when you do try the move them. It's like gee Remington since you really have accomplished zero for us why not just put a BB gun trigger on the rifles you make and charge $100 less on the MSRP?????



Could you please clarify sir??????



Not sure what you mean Snert...they don't hammer forge in the chamber, just the rifling and initial rough outer contour of the barrel...after that it gets machined like any other barrel. "make part of that go away with the reamer"??? I might have done a bad job of explaining the problem. In this case, based on what I see at the throat it appears that the chamber might be at a pretty good angle to the centerline of the bore. But, I mean, as bad as it is someone would have had to set this thing up on the lathe that way. What I cant wrap my cabeza around is how do you get a reamer deep enough to headspace and have rifling left half way around the chamber????

Its my understanding that the chamber and rifling are formed by the mandrel used in the hammer forging process. If Remington is using hammer forged barrels then it could be and issue with a worn mandrel.

 

[Rsadams]

You keep buying them , they will keep selling them... Once they screwed up the 870 I was out...

 

[grovey]

I've been having impure thoughts of get one in .243 and have it set back and rechambered to a 6x47. I actually have a few on my GB watch list that the seller says come from Rem with "used" on the end flap. Rem blems the way they talk... Wonder if your buddy's dealer hooked him up with one of these?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781140618

 

[joshb]

Tikka is the answer. Sad to say.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Tikka is the answer. Sad to say.

Dont be sad except we dont want a run on em