Decided to build my 1st custom. Advice?

[GSPV]

I refuse to play the Tax stamp scam. I'd love to have a suppressor, but the cost is prohibitive not to mention my strong objections to the way that and reasons why they are restricted . Could rant all day long about this topic. I'll put the extra grand into better equipment until suppressors are available freely without government involvement; the way that they should be.

Checked out the cost of hearing aids lately?

 

[Evan]

Today's range session with the RPR cemented an important detail for me: This build should be a bench gun, built to shoot from a rest. I have hunting rifles, a varmint rifle, and the rpr. I largely shoot from a bench and generally have to work around my equipment since it isn't optimized for that. I think a bench gun makes a lot of sense, given my current usage and the host of other guns I have already for other types of shooting.

Based on some PMs and consideration, I feel like I may be best served on this build to make it a HV 13.5lb benchrest-ready gun. Build it in a fireball or a 222, but make it so that a bolt and barrel swap down the road would bring it into competitiveness.

So I'm looking into actions and have a bit of a list of potentials:

Kelbly Kodiak: I hear really great things about Kelbly, from their excellent customer service, to their glassy smooth actions. I must admit, I'm scared of an aluminum action. Seems like it has a limited lifespan due to aluminum being prone to stress cracking. Otherwise, this one would be up at the top of my list!

Nesika Model R: I can find no information on these. People who own nesikas always swear by them, but they seem to be a rare bird. I can't find much mention of their customer service

Borden Rimrock BR: Rumors of fast turn around time, and people note their smoothness and great timing.

and the BAT B: I have read several comments that the wait time and general helpfulness of BAT was lacking. They are very desirable and so people are lining up, but I wonder if I may be better served taking my business to someone with a quicker turn and the "best" customer service when I call to talk about what they can do.

I don't know of anywhere I could go to check out or get a feel for these actions, and it seems like everyone has their preference, so I think this choice will need to be made blind based on advice here and around the web and probably heavily leaning on the gunsmith's preference for the build. Can anyone correct my above comments or add any enlightenment?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If you want it to be competitive and have resale later on use a regular br action everybody else uses- a kelbly panda or bat ds/b. No kodiaks and dont make a 13.5lb gun- youll have to stand around and watch for 2 different classes- exactly half of the time. And if you go with a kodiak in a 13.5lber itll be 98% unsellable if you need to unload it later. At a match besides the nationals or super shoot you have to look real hard to find a 13.5lb rifle. You could go to a dozen matches and not even see one

 

[Forum Boss]

There really aren't that many registered benchrest matches compared to informal club matches and varmint matches shot from benches around the country -- I would say the ratio is 30:1 or higher. The OP may not be interested in traveling to shoot registered matches also. If he is shooting primarily inside 300 yards he might consider a 30 BR. Very easy to tune, outstanding barrel life (3500+ easy), good choice for score matches.

Also there's really no reason not to buy a used benchrest rifle, and a 30BR could still have a lot of barrel life left. With a 6 PPC you probably have to figure in the cost of a new barrel.

 

[fyrewall]

I don't compete but on occasion I need to walk moderate distances carrying a rifle and need to shoot in excess of 300 yards. Sounds like there is a huge division between that and the setup that you are contemplating. Should I be in your situation I would certainly get my hands on one of these jewels to get an actual appreciation of it. 300 yards - no 20 MOA and little round - no 30 inch barrel. I like my 6.5X47 Lapua and I hear that the folks that designed it think of it as an optimum 300 meter round - much like the 6.5 Creedmore that you have. A 6mm BR sounds real good with a great selection of bullets, vast variety of powders, and Lapua brass. Possibly, you might think about spectating some BR matches. I think I would prefer a 6mm over a .22 for 300 yards.

 

[jimmymac]

If there is any chance this will turn in to a situation where you will be competing (or even if you don't) at those yardages, I'd get myself a good used 10 1/2 pound PPC with a BAT B, Panda or a Borden B and call it a day. You'll be ahead of the game. Should you decide to change directions it won't be hard to sell.

I've bought new and used. Used is the way to go provided you ask specific questions. Used will leave enough money on the table that can be used for a good high magnification fixed power scope. Once that has been acquired, it's flags and a rest. It ends up being a complete system. If the end game is to shoot in the low 2's and high 1's, or knock out all the x's on a score target, the entire system has to be up to the task. The weakest link in the system will be the limiting factor.

 

[Evlshnngns]

I'm putting together a 223 F/tr gun for economical range time and the monthly 600yd match. Just another option.

 

[270WinDude]

You said you have a hunting and varmint gun... what are the chamberings? While I can not help with build specifics, fwiw, the first time I shot a 6br I was very surprised with the limited recoil, I wasn’t even sure it went off. Also with br, i’ve Considered trying to build something for free recoil... with that the 6s are natural choices but the 30br, like mentioned is a long lasting and great choice for300 yards.

 

[Evan]

You said you have a hunting and varmint gun... what are the chamberings?

30-06 and 300 savage, built on large ring German mausers by my grandpa, a 22-250 on a trued Rem700, a 10/22 in 22LR, and then the RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor.

The hunters and 10/22 are sub-MOA, the 22-250 has shot into the teens before (0.15MOA or so), and the RPR is a solid 0.4MOA gun, although when the stars align it drops into 0.2MOA or so.

The 22-250 is coming to the end; the groups are opening up without explanation and it has thousands down the tube now. I plan to rebarrel it to a 6br. My goal for this custom gun is to have something really nice on the 378 boltface.

 

[Evan]

I really appreciate everyone's advice, and I thought that I'd come back and tie this up a bit. I've decided to build a 20 Vartarg. The hordes of people who rave about them; the handful of guys who are competing with them in 100/200 benchrest and ending up in the same standings they were shooting a 6ppc; all of it just seemed like the writing was on the wall. Spending the extra 100 bucks in cleaning and reloading equipment to tool up for 20 caliber is a small cost when the performance is so good compared to a fireball. I've talked to a few smiths, and it looks like I'm building a Borden Rimrock BR with a Hart barrel. The price and lead was quite reasonable and I'll make the stock myself. I will certainly share pictures and the groups when it's done!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I really appreciate everyone's advice, and I thought that I'd come back and tie this up a bit. I've decided to build a 20 Vartarg. The hordes of people who rave about them; the handful of guys who are competing with them in 100/200 benchrest and ending up in the same standings they were shooting a 6ppc; all of it just seemed like the writing was on the wall. Spending the extra 100 bucks in cleaning and reloading equipment to tool up for 20 caliber is a small cost when the performance is so good compared to a fireball. I've talked to a few smiths, and it looks like I'm building a Borden Rimrock BR with a Hart barrel. The price and lead was quite reasonable and I'll make the stock myself. I will certainly share pictures and the groups when it's done!

Ive never seen or heard of one in benchrest. But its a good vermin killer for sure

 

[Evan]

Ive never seen or heard of one in benchrest. But its a good vermin killer for sure

Here's one of them:
http://saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20573&highlight=vartarg+benchrest

 

[ratbuster]

I really appreciate everyone's advice, and I thought that I'd come back and tie this up a bit. I've decided to build a 20 Vartarg. The hordes of people who rave about them; the handful of guys who are competing with them in 100/200 benchrest and ending up in the same standings they were shooting a 6ppc; all of it just seemed like the writing was on the wall. Spending the extra 100 bucks in cleaning and reloading equipment to tool up for 20 caliber is a small cost when the performance is so good compared to a fireball. I've talked to a few smiths, and it looks like I'm building a Borden Rimrock BR with a Hart barrel. The price and lead was quite reasonable and I'll make the stock myself. I will certainly share pictures and the groups when it's done!

I think you will be elated with your 20VT. It is a truly amazing cartridge and you can get fantastic accuracy (in the high 1's and low 2's) with the modestly priced Vmax bullets. Keep your eye out for 32 grain Zmax. They come up for sale at typically 12 cents each and are 100% equal to Vmax but with a green tip instead of red. They are value priced by Hornady to capture the value oriented consumer. If you are looking for best wind performance shoot the 39 grain BK and 40 grain Vmax. Make sure you get a 1-11 twist barrel. 1-12 often will not stabilize the heavier bullets.

 

[Evan]

I think you will be elated with your 20VT. It is a truly amazing cartridge and you can get fantastic accuracy (in the high 1's and low 2's) with the modestly priced Vmax bullets. Keep your eye out for 32 grain Zmax. They come up for sale at typically 12 cents each and are 100% equal to Vmax but with a green tip instead of red. They are value priced by Hornady to capture the value oriented consumer. If you are looking for best wind performance shoot the 39 grain BK and 40 grain Vmax. Make sure you get a 1-11 twist barrel. 1-12 often will not stabilize the heavier bullets.

I went with a 9 twist, 26" HV Hart, thinking I could try heavy bullets like the 55 berger. There is potentially time to change it, but I felt like there wasn't a downside to the faster twist in the vartarg. I'll start with 40s. No real intent to shoot the light bullets right now.

 

[JBT47]

I would stay with the heavies.

 

[ratbuster]

I went with a 9 twist, 26" HV Hart, thinking I could try heavy bullets like the 55 berger. There is potentially time to change it, but I felt like there wasn't a downside to the faster twist in the vartarg. I'll start with 40s. No real intent to shoot the light bullets right now.

I've never heard of anyone shooting the 55 Berger with a VT but that doesn't mean it won't work. Most 20 Vartargs are built for shooting varmints and the 55 Berger is better suited for high velocity 20's like the 20 BR and faster because it pencils through critters at lower velocities.

Important!! Make sure the reamer being used is designed for Lapua brass. The early Vartarg reamers (of which there are many still out there) were designed around Remington brass which have thinner necks and a slightly smaller base diameter. If you get your barrel chambered with one of the early reamer designs you will have to turn necks if using Lapua brass and also the base diameter of the chamber will be a little tight, resulting in clickers. For the 32-40 grain bullets I would go with a Freebore of .035, neck of .2335 and base diameter (at .200) of .378. I can't help you on the 55 Berger but you would need more Freebore.

Phil

 

[Evan]

I've never heard of anyone shooting the 55 Berger with a VT but that doesn't mean it won't work. Most 20 Vartargs are built for shooting varmints and the 55 Berger is better suited for high velocity 20's like the 20 BR and faster because it pencils through critters at lower velocities.

Important!! Make sure the reamer being used is designed for Lapua brass. The early Vartarg reamers (of which there are many still out there) were designed around Remington brass which have thinner necks and a slightly smaller base diameter. If you get your barrel chambered with one of the early reamer designs you will have to turn necks if using Lapua brass and also the base diameter of the chamber will be a little tight, resulting in clickers. For the 32-40 grain bullets I would go with a Freebore of .035, neck of .2335 and base diameter (at .200) of .378. I can't help you on the 55 Berger but you would need more Freebore.

Phil

I appreciate that, Phil. I just this morning stumbled across the info about the 2 reamers and asked my gunsmith to confirm.

I'm planning to plink and punch paper, so lobbing a heavy 55 slower but in a more wind resistant manner could turn out better than the light bullets fast. I'll report my findings here! I'm up at 5000ft and thinner air, so the 9 twist should be plenty to stabilize the big bergers.

 

[ratbuster]

I appreciate that, Phil. I just this morning stumbled across the info about the 2 reamers and asked my gunsmith to confirm.

I'm planning to plink and punch paper, so lobbing a heavy 55 slower but in a more wind resistant manner could turn out better than the light bullets fast. I'll report my findings here! I'm up at 5000ft and thinner air, so the 9 twist should be plenty to stabilize the big bergers.

I'm sure those Bergers will outperform in the wind as their BC is spectacular. At one time I was very keen to build a 20 Dasher hotrod using those bullets for small varmints at extreme ranges (800+ yards) but abandoned the idea because I found out the bullet does not have explosive characteristics at long ranges (retained velocity) to do any hydrostatic damage. I really dislike penciling small animals, often resulting in slow deaths. But the ballistic performance of that bullet is impressive, without question. Have you done any research to indicate approx what velocities the Vartarg case might push that bullet? I'm thinking maybe 3000 fps. You may want to consider doing a 20 Practical (or better yet a 20 Tactical) since you want to use the Berger. I think the extra powder capacity would be a better fit for that big bullet, maybe allowing close to 3400 fps.

Out of curiosity I ran some numbers....

Cartridge
Vartarg 55 Berger Velocity 3000

 

[ratbuster]

I'm sure those Bergers will outperform in the wind as their BC is spectacular. At one time I was very keen to build a 20 Dasher hotrod using those bullets for small varmints at extreme ranges (800+ yards) but abandoned the idea because I found out the bullet does not have explosive characteristics at long ranges (retained velocity) to do any hydrostatic damage. I really dislike penciling small animals, often resulting in slow deaths. But the ballistic performance of that bullet is impressive, without question. Have you done any research to indicate approx what velocities the Vartarg case might push that bullet? I'm thinking maybe 3000 fps. You may want to consider doing a 20 Practical (or better yet a 20 Tactical) since you want to use the Berger. I think the extra powder capacity would be a better fit for that big bullet, maybe allowing around 3400 fps.

Out of curiosity I ran some numbers....

Cartridge Velocity Drop at 500 Drift at 500, 10 mph crosswind
Vartarg 55 Berger 3000 47" 21"
Vartarg 40 Vmax 3400 38" 24"
20 Practical 55 Berg 3400 34" 17"
20 Practical 40 Vmax 3850 28 20"

As you can see the 20 Practical using either the 55 Berger or 40 Vmax outperforms the Vartarg for wind drift. Although I own two 20 Practicals the 30 degree shoulder of the Tactical is a better choice....less brass trimming.

 

[Evan]

Cartridge Velocity Drop at 500 Drift at 500, 10 mph crosswind
Vartarg 55 Berger 3000 47" 21"
Vartarg 40 Vmax 3400 38" 24"
20 Practical 55 Berg 3400 34" 17"
20 Practical 40 Vmax 3850 28 20"

As you can see the 20 Practical using either the 55 Berger or 40 Vmax outperforms the Vartarg for wind drift. Although I own two 20 Practicals the 30 degree shoulder of the Tactical is a better choice....less brass trimming.

I'm not sure what I'd get for velocity. I think it might go 3200 due to my 26" of barrel. But we'll see. Future barrel will likely be a 20 Pr/Tactical.