Is it me, the load, or the gun?

[WANTASHOOT]

I am guessing this is a common question with many shooters, resulting in chasing the wrong problem, or changing too much and not knowing what actually fixed the Problem.

Would any of you be willing to share some advise?

I know it’s a pretty general question but I am not looking to fix an exact problem on this post. Want to understand the basic process so I can begin troubleshooting for myself.

 

[Milo 2.0]

You were right, very vague, always deduce it down one thing at a time starting with what may seem the most logical.

 

[WANTASHOOT]

You were right, very vague, always deduce it down one thing at a time starting with what may seem the most logical.

I intended to be a bit vague, looking for the big picture process that everyone can use to become better, finding the problem quickly is also important and hope someone has that answer. As you get down to the final stages I agree with one at a time.

 

[Milo 2.0]

If a problem arises, I let someone else shoot my gun first, some days, I plain suck.

 

[Falfan2017]

I think you need to analyze your groups. It can be hard to tell at close range but get out to 500+ yards and shoot 5 shot or 10 shot groups. If you have 9 in a couple inches at 500 and 1 at 4 or so inches that was probably your fault. If they are a shotgun pattern covering 5 inches then your load development isn't there. If you have two groups when there should be one it seems seating depth is a common factor.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

If you've never shot a real benchrest rifle, visit the Ben Avery Range when the next benchrest tournament is held. Someone will either loan you a rifle to compete with, or at the very least let you shoot a few groups. I've loaned a rifle to several new shooters who promptly shot the smallest group of their lives (by far), which suggests that it's the arrow more than the Indian for the typical shooter.

At the highest levels of competition the whole system -- shooter, rifle, load -- has to be working to win. But with a little coaching the average rifle shooter can shoot tiny groups with a properly built benchrest rifle.

I wrote this 30+ years ago. It's still true.

 

[rebel]

Shoot on an overcast day, early morning or later in the evening as long as your target is well shaded. Sunlight and mirage will absolutely mess you up, even at 100 yards. Once that is done, you can start analyzing problems like trigger, stock position, load ect.
Toby's advice aint bad neither.

 

[WANTASHOOT]

I have a few limitations which I will try to incorporate into my plan. I am hoping this makes sense to other new shooters and if I am incorrect I am hoping you seasoned follows will steer me straight.

First is quality gear, perfect ammo will not get better groups if you have poor quality rest, gun etc.... this can be a huge step as it’s all expensive, this is one of my current road blocks. I have what I think is a great gun however my rest is weak, the bench is good but the provided stools suck so I can’t get a good position behind the rifle, so my plan is to get a quality rest, take a stool to the range that will allow good position.

Second is a good setup, again if your not shooting from quality equipment, in a stable setup the ammo can be perfect and you won’t shoot as expected. So plan is again get the equipment in check. Then practice my setup I feel i should be able to setup on the bench and dial into the bullseye and dry fire and do this until you have a stable setup. This may reveal weaknesses in your setup or position or methods which all need to be addressed one at a time. Step 3 will help identify proper position, setup, gear etc....

3rd is a shooting mentor, I don’t have one of these, you will not know if your setup is good, gear is good, process etc... unless you have someone showing/telling you what’s wrong. Like Toby mentioned above you need to go shoot quality gear and see. Don’t really have a plan to fix this for lots of reasons- time is the biggest, I won’t bore with the details this is already going to be long enough. But Toby I may take you up on that offer some day. I do live near by.

4th I think should be practice, You must at least have 1 and 2 down or practice won’t help, #3 will help allot on this but you might be able to get by if you’re independent and do lots of research and truely understand 1 and 2.

5 I think should be quality ammo and could interchange with #4 if you have junk ammo get that fixed before you practice but that mentor will really help with this step also. If they can’t get a quality setup to shoot you likely have an ammo problem.

And this brings an end to my experience, I need gear and a mentor to show me the next couple steps. I will need to acquire some funds, and time and some day I will be ready to go compete and enjoy the sport with less frustration

 

[gpoldblue]

I am guessing this is a common question with many shooters, resulting in chasing the wrong problem, or changing too much and not knowing what actually fixed the Problem.

Would any of you be willing to share some advise?

I know it’s a pretty general question but I am not looking to fix an exact problem on this post. Want to understand the basic process so I can begin troubleshooting for myself.

Ultimately,it's always pilot error. You,the shooter,are ultimately responsible for everything. If you are not getting the results your looking for,you have made one or more wrong choices. Also,can be compound problems. You may need to stop and start over with a systematic approach. If you don't understand something,try to find someone to help you. If you are trying to do this by yourself,the learning curve can be very long.
Good luck. Dan

 

[ebb]

If your groups are not what you feel they need to be change one thing. 1 Try different ammo, some thing known to shot in this gun would be best. 2 Have some one else that can shoot try to make a group with this rifle. 3 try a different scope. You cannot change the rifle! Step 1 may or may not have shown you it was ammo related. Step 2 may or may not have shown it was you. Step 3 you didn't mention but needed to be said. If you have not figured out the problem by now it is time to look at the rifle. Look for loose things first. Then look for some thing rubbing. Do the dollar bill test on the barrel channel. If it is too tight look in the barrel channel for rub marks. Bolt handle rubbing on cut out in stock. Magazine box too tight and trying to lift action off of bedding. Only change one thing at a time. When you get used to looking for problems the size of the group will tell you what to look for. If it is shooting 5 inches at 100 yds it probably isn't ammo.

 

[22BRGUY]

I've found that little things can make big differences. The more small details I pay attention to the better I do. It's so easy to think or overlook something that just doesn't seem that important but often enough if I try to pay attention to some of these, it's rewarding. JMHO

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Like ebb said though- have a little common sense. If you shoot a 5” group its not because you didnt sort primers, sort bullets, anneal or weigh on a lab scale to the fraction of a kernel.

 

[JMayo]

Takes time for time to pass ....
I'm getting to the end of my first year in center fire.
I have about 5 yrs in bench rest 22.
I learned so much that helped in CF BR.
I also have reloading experience in pistols that helped in rifle hand loading.
Now down to the big bang, recoil, weather and all that is CF ....
Whew ....packaging it into useful, helpful, thought & ideas, "leanings".
Did I say process takes time ?
That's my take on figuring out...
Is it me, the gun or the ammo

 

[grovey]

The answers to most if not all of your questions have been discussed on this website, I'm sure. But with such a open ended question.... how can you expect anyone to answer ? Use the search function to search for specific solutions , and perhaps guidance with a issue you're having. A few hrs of reading should give you a good idea of the weaknesses in your setup.

 

[msinc]

I get several rifles brought to me every year for accuracy issues. They range from big game hunting rifles to various varmint/target/sniper type rifles. My first question is always "did it ever shoot good??" to start with and if so how good??
Sometimes you just have an off day. Quick check for that is let someone else shoot it. Otherwise, if it did shoot great once upon a time then what has changed or been swapped out?? This is the part that drives me crazy...getting some "shooter" to tell the truth about what is really going on can be worse than pulling teeth.
Based on info from the above questions usually you can tell whether or not what the next move should be. If it did shoot good and all of a sudden groups opened to double the usual then a borescope is in order. Trigger adjustment check and bedding needs to be looked at.
I have had a lot of guys tell me about symptoms and how they must be one thing or the other, but the fact is I have seen a copper fouled bore act or shoot just like a bad scope. I have also seen many things that appeared to be really bad but not effect the accuracy no where near as much as the rest of the world believes or will tell others it can. A good example of this is a rifle that went from 1" groups to 3" groups and the first thing everyone posts to check is the muzzle crown. I have corrected some severely gunched up crowns in my time, some that looked like a mad circus chimp beat the muzzle with a bit brace and none of them shot that bad. On the other hand I have seen some relatively minute looking barrel flaws that only a new barrel would correct.
I guess what I am saying is that I agree it would be nice to compile a list of most common to least issues that affect accuracy, but you will still get rifles that have something wrong that just don't follow these kinds of general rules.

 

[Brians356]

If you've never shot a real benchrest rifle, visit the Ben Avery Range when the next benchrest tournament is held. Someone will either loan you a rifle to compete with, or at the very least let you shoot a few groups. I've loaned a rifle to several new shooters who promptly shot the smallest group of their lives (by far), which suggests that it's the arrow more than the Indian for the typical shooter.

At the highest levels of competition the whole system -- shooter, rifle, load -- has to be working to win. But with a little coaching the average rifle shooter can shoot tiny groups with a properly built benchrest rifle.

I wrote this 30+ years ago. It's still true.

It's also worthwhile having a good shooter or shooting coach watch you shoot your gun. There's likely to be one or more sub-par aspects of setup, posture, grip, or technique which will be immediately obvious, not unlike hitting a few balls for a golf pro.
-

 

[luckeeshot]

Join a rifle range club and seek help as in coaching ,, you'll find a friend !

 

[alinwa]

I am guessing this is a common question with many shooters, resulting in chasing the wrong problem, or changing too much and not knowing what actually fixed the Problem.

Would any of you be willing to share some advise?

I know it’s a pretty general question but I am not looking to fix an exact problem on this post. Want to understand the basic process so I can begin troubleshooting for myself.

Fixing The Problem....

I went to Gunsmithing School

I worked in 3 gunshops

I "customized" "accurized" and otherwise sodomized a bunch of factory guns.......

I became the "go to guy for accuracy" but like you I just never KNEW.

After mebbeso 15yrs of this I bit down and ordered a 6PPC BR rifle setup from a known winning builder. Critical here is the whole shebang.... a winnable SETUP.....Without proper brass and fitted dies for instance the whole deal goes sideways. I finally decided that no matter what I had to sell..... beg-borrow-or-steal I was gonna' get a solid baseline......... "What WAS real accuracy??" and "Could I Do It?"


HOleeee SchMIDTT!!

ABSOLUTELY the best 4 Grand I ever spent on guns.

period.

Nothing else even comes CLOSE.

IMO ya' just don't know what'cha don't know until you actually touch accuracy, REAL accuracy.


Much easier is to just go to a BR Match, or find a BR guy as suggested. But YOU have to pull some trigger on a real gun to have any idea ......... you'll feel like a PIIGGGG!!

Cuz alla'sudden, you'll SEE the wind....