Ar 10 accuracy - What can I expect?

[people]

We form our opinions on what we observe.

Having observed several folks wearing out their M1A and M14NM rifles winning matches never needing them repaired or fixed for the lives of their barrels. That's proof to me some are rebuilt to start with much better than others.

Same was true with 7.62 Garands.

Those are the unicorns. usrifleteams is a great place to read up on how the M1A is not truly a sub moa rifle. There are other forums that also cover this. I do enjoy reading the "MOA all day" threads. There is a reason why most shoot an AR15.

What is sad is how even the US armed forces keep going back to the M14 and relearn it is really a couple MOA rifle. When I was in the USMC got 1,000 M-14s from storage and did most of the tricks to make them real shooters to include putting a scope on. Long story very short. EOD went from having a very capable semi-auto (FA was removed) to having a very cool looking rifle that never lived up to the accuracy claims. Then the war happened so many jumped back on the M-14 band wagon and relearned that the M-14 is a battle rifle.

While you can polish a turd it is still a turd, and like most battle rifles several MOA is just the standard.

With all that being said if you have a M1A that shoots amazing and has held up over time you are one of the very lucky few.

 

[retired]

so you take your fellow competitors rifles home with you, so you know there is no work between matches ?
completely contrary to my experience.
rebed every year.
the last match i went to there was ONE m14, all else were ar's. that was almost 15 years ago.

We form our opinions on what we observe.

Having observed several folks wearing out their M1A and M14NM rifles winning matches never needing them repaired or fixed for the lives of their barrels. That's proof to me some are rebuilt to start with much better than others.

Same was true with 7.62 Garands.

 

[retired]

probably because it was a ss bbl and the m14 has a chrome moly. they do wear diff. easier to nachine ss so we see more of it, but a chrome moly will last longer.

the bbl on your ar10 can be replaced in less than an hour by almost anyone, not so with the m14. in the end the ar10 is cheaper to shoot simply due to bbl/chambering costs.
the op question was about ar10s not m14's.

One other note: My AR-10 barrels are consistantly making right at 2K rounds, and they go into the trash, due to fire cracking in the throat. Since they cant really be set back, I just scrap them.

 

[Bart B.]

What is sad is how even the US armed forces keep going back to the M14 and relearn it is really a couple MOA rifle.

That's What the NM versions were with the best lots of M118 match ammo. So were the USN match grade 7.62 M1's. Most accurate lots of M118 tested 10 to 11 inches at 600 yards from bolt action test barrels.

 

[retired]

m118 is not match ammo..mil spec krap bullet.
m118 la is a diff story..great in guns it was designed for..BOLT GUNS.
worked great in ar10's but
m14's could not handle it so we got the krap compromise load we have today.
"good" in lots of guns, GREAT in none!

back to our regularly scheduled broadcast.

That's What the NM versions were with the best lots of M118 match ammo. So were the USN match grade 7.62 M1's. Most accurate lots of M118 tested 10 to 11 inches at 600 yards from bolt action test barrels.

 

[Bart B.]

probably because it was a ss bbl and the m14 has a chrome moly. they do wear diff.

I was referring to both barrel metal types. Best shots rebarreled between 3000 and 4000 rounds. Garand barrels in USN built rifles were all chrome moly service grade barrels air gauged and those with groove .3078" or smaller were used in match versions. Those broach rifled barrels from the military Springfield Armort were amazingly accurate; equal to Obermeyer and Kreiger.

 

[Bart B.]

so you take your fellow competitors rifles home with you, so you know there is no work between matches ? completely contrary to my experience.
rebed every year.

No. You should do the reverse of "lock and load." "Unload and unlock."

It's a smart thing to do; unlock the trigger guard on all those rifles when off the range. Their bedding will last across a few barrels across as many years.

 

[retired]

your opinion is not the same as mine.

No. You should do the reverse of "lock and load." "Unload and unlock."

It's a smart thing to do; unlock the trigger guard on all those rifles when off the range. Their bedding will last across a few barrels across as many years.

 

[ericbc7]

Good barrel, good trigger, good builder =sub moa

 

[Bart B.]

your opinion is not the same as mine.

Obviously.

Experience is a good teacher. We must have been in different schools.

 

[people]

Yes it is. A few of us went to school in the real world and a few went to school in la la land.

 

[LGKLAS]

My Rock River Arms 6.5mm CM (20" bbl) will shoot 1MOA or less out of the box. Using off the shelf Hornady 'American Gunner' (140 HPBT). They state 1 MOA on their site. Bought it on special about a year ago. Very pleased with it. Attaching a photo of their ad and my zero target:

 

[1shot]

Just shot a tactical class ( Bi-pod and toe bag) 600 yd. match with my bone stock AR-10T. I'm normally a sling shooter, but I wanted to prove a point that with minimal load development and run of the mill components a rifle could fare well for a beginning shooter. I shot a 582-20X in light, variable winds using 168 SMK's and RL-15 powder that had a price sticker on it that read $49.95 for a 5 lb. jug. Brass was W-W nickel plated once fired that was laying around the shop. A 100 yd test group yielded a .375 c-c 3 shot group, so I guess this one will shoot.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Just shot a tactical class ( Bi-pod and toe bag) 600 yd. match with my bone stock AR-10T. I'm normally a sling shooter, but I wanted to prove a point that with minimal load development and run of the mill components a rifle could fare well for a beginning shooter. I shot a 582-20X in light, variable winds using 168 SMK's and RL-15 powder that had a price sticker on it that read $49.95 for a 5 lb. jug. Brass was W-W nickel plated once fired that was laying around the shop. A 100 yd test group yielded a .375 c-c 3 shot group, so I guess this one will shoot.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

That sounds really good. Clearly high accuracy and precision are possible from an AR10, but I think it would be a stretch to tell the OP to expect results like yours, which was the question he asked.

 

[1shot]

That sounds really good. Clearly high accuracy and precision are possible from an AR10, but I think it would be a stretch to tell the OP to expect results like yours, which was the question he asked.

It's tough to say if my system is the exception or the rule for that specific rifle. I posted my results to show what was possible. Without seeing the OP system, I don't know of any way possible to predict what would be an average group size to expect. If you can, feel free to do so.
Thanks,

Lloyd

 

[natdscott]

I hear tales, but have never seen a 1/2 MOA AR of any type. Considering that I have a different opinion of what 1/2 MOA means than other people do (to me it has to be consistent, not a wallet group)..

Be mindful that I am a trigger puller, not a smith.

It's real. Or can be.

I too am a trigger puller, but I've had the good fortune to be the trigger puller on several really highly pedigreed AR15s, some mine, and some I've worked on or loaded for for others.

In my experience, for top shelf AR's, shooting in the 4's to 6's is about all you can expect with tuned handloads...but there IS that occasional rifle that comes in under 3/8 Minute pretty reg'lar. I only ever handled one that I thought might do 1/4 Minute (well, it did, twice), but I didn't have long enough to chase it for consistency, and it wasn't my rifle. Figures...

One common theme was that all of mine are either Krieger or Bartlein, are smithed by the VERY best with the VERY best of everything, and the same has been true of all but one of the rifles I have worked on.



...but as for the Big AR..can't say. All I know is that the military teams, and others like David Tubb, have found that it is not quite as easily wrung out as the little one.

 

[SG4247]

Les Baer large and small frame ARs seem to shoot extremely well.

Most are under 1/2 MOA.

I shot this last week at 547 yards with a 20” LB AR-15 and factory Lapua 55 gr ammo. Luck? Maybe.

 

[mike06]

This is from my RRA AR-10 26" barrel 3 shots at 425 yards.

 

[Bamban]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/keith-stephens-remington-cup.3956586/

This^