More scale stuff....something that worked

[KenOath]

Why do ya'll put yourselves through all this? All this time and effort you could have bought a FX120 and been over with it.

Wish I had of done this sooner^^^
Adam put some cream on top with his Auto Trickler..
If you can’t afford this set up now and are a keen shooter, start saving!!!

 

[retired]

welcome to the last century!
plus or minus plus .1 does not make it in some competition.

Get an Ohaus 10-10 if you can find one and a set of analytical weights. Mine was purchased in 1970 and is still with + or - a .1 grain throughout the range I used it for i.e. 5.5 grains to 44 grains. I check the calibration every 12 months.

The only maintenance I perform is carefully cleaning the knife edges and anvils once a year. I keep the scale covered and the beam off the anvils when not in use.

 

[alinwa]

Good On Ya Boyd

I've always run my scale on AC, circuit with no surging loads, concrete slab floor and a wire taped to the side that runs to the center screw on the outlet box.

It stays on 00.00 for days/weeks/months until something happens to disturb it.

 

[germanlongbow]

I’ve been loading for 20 years on an old Dillon scale good to 0.1 grain. Finally bought the satorius replacement for GD503. Turns out the cheap Dillon scale is off by two kernels of powder compared to the $1100 satorius that measures down to 0.001 grains. Hopefully it will work as long as old blue.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have done a few things to the scale beyond what I have written earlier.

One thing was to set the scale on a sheet of aluminum foil and loosely wrap it up the sides, with a tear in the back to accommodate the power cord. It turns out that aluminum foil is a pretty good shielding material...(YouTube), Then I got brave.

I took the stainless cover off of the weighing platform and while carefully supporting it, removed the small Phillips screw that secured it to the support beneath. Interesting view. The reason that I had risked this was that I figured that dust can end up about anywhere, and that it might have gotten in somewhere critical that might explain my scale's more erratic behavior. With the platform off I could see that its support was itself supported from one end and extended like a cantilevered beam with some sort of brass colored metal strip, that extended from the opposite side, contacting the underside of the free end. I figured that that might be the load cell and that if anything had gotten between it and the support that it might contribute to the problems that I had been seeing. Not having thought far enough ahead to pick up some canned air, I pursed my lips and applied slightly compressed air to the general area, hoping not to create more of a problem than I was attempting to fix. After that I put it back together and powered it up. It works... better. It has been sitting on 0.00 for a couple of hours. Normally it climbs.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

In my quest to find an acceptable scale, I had 2 different GemPro300's. They are ok if you use them with enough care. You can run them from batteries in case there is a problem with the home electric. One was more accurate pressing the TARE button each time, the other didn't seem to need it. Either scale would produce the same results 95+% of the time. I do remember every once in a while it would go +/- .04 grain but never over that. You can usually weigh within +/- .02 grain. It's very important to have a stable surface, no breezes, and the scale must be perfectly level. Also, sitting anything on the weighing platform must be done very gently or the readings will fluctuate. Here is a couple test I performed. I weighed different items alternating between weights in case the scale would try to remember a reading. The first test was 25 weighings each of 2 different items. The second was 75 weighings of each item.
View attachment 1049462
I tried a side by side test of the Veritas-63 which is a $300 scale load cell scale. It was beyond horrible even on battery power. Here is a comparison of the Gem Pro and the Veritas. The GemPro is by far superior at half the cost.
View attachment 1049463

And I tried a trickle test (adding 1 kernal of Varget at a time). The Veritas was so unreliable I couldn't get through the test with it.
View attachment 1049464

These are the scales I've owned. The A&D FX series is by far the best after I figured it out and will read exactly the same time after time.
View attachment 1049465

Thanks for a lot of good info. It looks like there are several different models in the A&D FX series. Which one do you have?

 

[T-shooter]

Thanks for a lot of good info. It looks like there are several different models in the A&D FX series. Which one do you have?

I have the FX300i. As far as I know, they all work the same except for the maximum capacity. I bought the FX300i because the FX120i wasn't available at that time.

 

[alinwa]

I have done a few things to the scale beyond what I have written earlier.

One thing was to set the scale on a sheet of aluminum foil and loosely wrap it up the sides, with a tear in the back to accommodate the power cord. It turns out that aluminum foil is a pretty good shielding material...(YouTube)

I'm not electrically savvy, but as I understand it smokeless powder is coated in graphite both to aid in it sliding about and to add electrical conductivity grain-to-grain in the interest of "eliminating electrical potential" which is a fancy way to say "eliminate or equalize static charge." This static or "unequal potential" plays havoc in more ways than just fire hazard....and growing up in Minn'Desoda where static charges grow to horrendous potentials I STILL sometimes will absently touch the pump and tap my knuckle to the rig before touching down with the nozzle. Talk to a small plane pilot to see where they will sometimes clamp a ground to the plane before fueling....

That light wire thing is real IME. I first had a static problem yrs ago in a powder measure where the granules would pop about and cling to the barrel. I was of course trying all sorts of things to increase consistency of my thrown charges and was convinced that if the powder was clinging to the barrel and to itself it followed that it didn't flow freely. right or wrong I took a tiny piece of wire and screwed it to the center screw on the electrical outlet, touched it to the powder chamber and watched the granules FALL off the walls...... To this day all of my hand throwers are grounded. Folks look at the wire lead on my Harrell thrower and ask "what th'.. is this thing powered or what?"

You see where I'm going with this...... While the AL pan may well act to shield against "stray RF" or whatever, it might also be hoovis to run a liddle wire from it to make a grounding bleeder if you again develop a wandering zero.

Since dryer sheets are kindofa' workaround for this problem, I found this wiki interesting. I don't know if the aluminum ball acts as a capacitor? Or if it even works... but it must have worked for somebody

https://lifehacker.com/5533418/use-aluminum-foil-to-keep-clothes-static-free

 

[BoydAllen]

I'm not electrically savvy, but as I understand it smokeless powder is coated in graphite both to aid in it sliding about and to add electrical conductivity grain-to-grain in the interest of "eliminating electrical potential" which is a fancy way to say "eliminate or equalize static charge." This static or "unequal potential" plays havoc in more ways than just fire hazard....and growing up in Minn'Desoda where static charges grow to horrendous potentials I STILL sometimes will absently touch the pump and tap my knuckle to the rig before touching down with the nozzle. Talk to a small plane pilot to see where they will sometimes clamp a ground to the plane before fueling....

That light wire thing is real IME. I first had a static problem yrs ago in a powder measure where the granules would pop about and cling to the barrel. I was of course trying all sorts of things to increase consistency of my thrown charges and was convinced that if the powder was clinging to the barrel and to itself it followed that it didn't flow freely. right or wrong I took a tiny piece of wire and screwed it to the center screw on the electrical outlet, touched it to the powder chamber and watched the granules FALL off the walls...... To this day all of my hand throwers are grounded. Folks look at the wire lead on my Harrell thrower and ask "what th'.. is this thing powered or what?"

You see where I'm going with this...... While the AL pan may well act to shield against "stray RF" or whatever, it might also be hoovis to run a liddle wire from it to make a grounding bleeder if you again develop a wandering zero.

Since dryer sheets are kindofa' workaround for this problem, I found this wiki interesting. I don't know if the aluminum ball acts as a capacitor? Or if it even works... but it must have worked for somebody

https://lifehacker.com/5533418/use-aluminum-foil-to-keep-clothes-static-free

Al,
A ways into this he demonstrates aluminum foil and the effect of grounding it. You may be surprised.

I have a lot of electronics around and on my desk.

 

[alinwa]

Al,
A ways into this he demonstrates aluminum foil and the effect of grounding it. You may be surprised.

I have a lot of electronics around and on my desk.

Apples and Oranges

I'm not concerned with shielding as I've never experienced any EM or RF interference errors. What I've experienced has always been due to static buildup and draining it off with a wire is like poking a hole in a water jug. I'm suggesting you "drain" your "shield" because while shielding it may do, what I KNOW it does is conduct well and will work to neutralize potential in the unit.

I can't even imagine a reason for grounding a shielding setup. I typically shield the noisy, emitting unit itself, and have a lot of shielded (metal wrapped) wiring in an attempt to successfully CONTAIN stray RF but I've never messed with nor had any reason to mess with covering the affected or receiving unit. My question for this guy is, "how does the router signal get out of the shield?" I mean, that's an RF router i'n it??

 

[BoydAllen]

Al,
A router broadcasts WIFI so shielding it so that it does not emit would interfere with that, as it does in the video. As I have mentioned I work on my desk which has multiple things on it that I have demonstrated to my satisfaction have an effect on the scale. For that reason I keep it well back from my monitor, and set the wireless keyboard, and mouse as well as my cordless receiver some distance from the scale. Shielding the scale is the only practical approach, if one is going to do that. It is funny but the very last thing that I did, seems to have stopped the scale from drifting when there is nothing on it. Before I put it away, it sat under AC power with no batteries for several hours showing 0.00.

 

[K22]

welcome to the last century!
plus or minus plus .1 does not make it in some competition.

Works for me but I only hunt varmints / predators / and deer and do not compete. Maybe it's my ignorance but I find it hard to believe that a .1 grain variation in a load could make any difference, but again I'm not a competitive target shooter so I'll take your word for it.

 

[alinwa]

Al,
A router broadcasts WIFI so shielding it so that it does not emit would interfere with that, as it does in the video. As I have mentioned I work on my desk which has multiple things on it that I have demonstrated to my satisfaction have an effect on the scale. For that reason I keep it well back from my monitor, and set the wireless keyboard, and mouse as well as my cordless receiver some distance from the scale. Shielding the scale is the only practical approach, if one is going to do that. It is funny but the very last thing that I did, seems to have stopped the scale from drifting when there is nothing on it. Before I put it away, it sat under AC power with no batteries for several hours showing 0.00.

I'm not disagreeing in any way with your shielding I'm simply adding that it may also help to ground it.

For entirely different reasons.

And, that grounding shouldn't have any deleterious effect on your shielding process.

The fact that I've never had to shield my units was just extraneous information, sorry if it sounded like argument or disagreement.