Where do I even start ?Hoping a

[amboy49]

I have been shooting some form of firearm for over 50 years mostly concentrating on the shotgun sports, but also loading for and shooting center fire rifles for hunting and minimally taking a very amatuerish stab at trying to shoot small groups from the bench. With the acquisition of a used Dillon xl650 reloader for production reloading of 9mm for IDPA and USPSA pistol shooting I also garnered over 2,000 empty .223 mixed headstamp cases and a couple thousand loose 52 gr. .224 dia bullets.

This has inspired me to try to assemble a very accurate (sub MOA) rifle for prairie dog shoots and bench rest at targets out to, say, 500 yards. So . . . . . . I’ve purchased a new Savage Model 10T and have mounted a new Vortex 6-24x50 MOA scope. So with those parameters, where do I begin to try to wring out the most accuracy out of that combination ? I’m not thinking I’ll go to extremes with a custom barrel or other gunsmithing work so I’d like to refine what I have.

I have read minimally re: the components parts of an accurate rifle combination - everything from barrel headspace, bullet seating, shooter variables, trigger work, and on and on. I don’t know where to start.

Is there a book, a worksheet, a checklist or . . . . . . . something that tells me where to start ? Do I start with the reloading process ? The Savage has an accu bedded stock and I’m told I can adjust the trigger down to about 1 1/2 lbs. I don’t imagine I’m going to ultimately take up F Class shooting, but I would like to begin to acquire a new set of skills. Hoping a couple of folks will take pity on a an old dog trying to learn a few new tricks.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Forum Boss]

1. Save for a custom barrel, or a semi-custom such as a Criterion Pre-fit. If you are serious about shooting at 500 yards, get a twist rate that will let you shoot longer bullets. Those 52-grainers aren't going to do very well at 500 in the wind.

2. Unless you are going to shoot hundreds of rounds daily on a P-Dog trip, invest in 200 premium brass cases.

3. Get a decent front rest and a good rear bag.

Having started with a factory Savage many years ago and eventually replacing barrel, stock, trigger, I can tell you Savages are capable of excellent accuracy, but your factory barrel may be a winner or a loser.

 

[simo hayha]

Savageshooters.com



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[Dusty Stevens]

Wonder what twist rate your barrel has?

 

[retired]

cheap bullets and mixed brass are not a formula for sub moa accuracy.
you can actually do submoa loading on the 650 IF:
1) you select a powder that will meter well,
2) find a load that is not real temper mental about how much powder.
3) prep the brass in one session,
4) load in a separate session

sell the brass, sell the bullets buy a couple hundred match 223 brass, a bullet like the
50 gr v or z max.

it is not a benchrest rifle, tho you may find local club matches you can shoot in.
500 yds is a different story...what twist is the bbl?

 

[alinwa]

What area of the country? Sometimes it's advantageous to go to a match and see what's going on.... Or even a range, take a notebook, ask a few questions when you find someone shooting well. Also, what the Boss said......223 is comparatively easy to make shoot well with the light bullets but no matter how accurate they shoot up close, 500yds is a long stretch in the wind!

 

[Brians356]

I've never owned or even fired a Savage, but they have a good reputation for accuracy . But for comparison, I started with a standard R700 VS in 223 Rem - the HS composite stock, 26-in barrel. A common Leupold Vari-X II 4-12 AO scope. I shot off a concrete bench with a Harris bipod and a good rear bag, not optimal for BR.

The rangemaster suggested I start my first handloads with Winchester brass (they were still decent in the '90s), Rem 7-1/2 primers, H335 and H322 powders, and Sierra 53-gr Matchkings seated just kissing the lands. I bought a plain RCBS neck die, a Redding Competition seater, and a Stoney Point OAL gauge.

With this humble setup, but proven components, I was able to fairly quickly develop loads that shot groups 1/2 MOA, often much smaller, to 200 yards. I added 40-gr Ballistic Tips, also successfully.

Soon I was striving for 1/4 MOA, but while some bugholes were regularly printed, I eventually realized the limits to what I could achieve with a mass-produced rifle off a bipod. Yet the desert ground squirrels and local coyotes were not amused. With a laser rangefinder and light winds, I felt cheated if I missed a squirrel from a steady position out to 300 yards.

My point is you should be able to achieve < 1 MOA from a factory barrel fairly easily, unless you get a real stinker. But I don't think you will be satisfied for long with that performance. I'm tempted to recommend you start with a good aftermarket barrel. But it might be fun and educational to see what you can wring out of a factory rifle first.
-

 

[Zero333]

bulk 52gr bullets are most likely not going to net you benchrest accuracy, but will help in honing your reloading skills.

Look up "Optimal Charge Weight" and Audette "Ladder" test. Those 2 are the common ways of finding accuracy nodes (best powder charge weight).

Once you find the best powder charge weights you'll move onto playing with the seating depth.

Get the Hornady OAL gauge with the corresponding modified case (223rem for your instance), and the Hornady Headspace comparator kit is a piece of mind when resizing brass, cause we don't want to push the shoulders too far when resizing the brass. Most of us bump the shoulders of the brass 0.002".

223 Powders.... H-335, H-322, IMR-3031, H-4895, imr-4895 are good for 52 gr bullets. Be careful when looking up load data... imr-4895 and H-4895 might be similar but they're no the same. This applies to all powder names from all mfg's.

Primers ? federal 205m, cci450 cci400, cci-br4, Winchester small rifle and many other are good, but for Savage rifles I prefer Federal primers because "Some" Savage's don't have very strong firing pin springs, and federal primer cups are softer than others. Tactical Savage models have strong firing pin springs.

Best bullets for the money are Berger bullets, and their flat base bullets are super accurate, at the expense of lower ballistic efficiency, making them not ideal for longer ranges. Berger boat tailed bullets are most popular around here and everywhere folks shoot longer ranges.

 

[people]

Shooting PD and BR are two different things.

Depending on what the 52gr bullets are they should get you sub moa. This should be good PD ammo. Your brass will be a problem. You should sort it. Then do the work and see where you are at accuracy wize. You may be surprised how well your brass works.

BR just buy some brass and heavier bullets and test.

I personally can not see a reason to shoot very expensive bullets at PD but that is just me.

 

[CharlieNC]

You may do ok if you have plenty of time on your hands and want to do the work. Sort the brass by brand, inspection rejects, size, clean, measure for consistency. If bullets are same brand you may be ok. At this stage if you just want a decent start into shooting without spending a bunch, buy the fully processed Lake City brass; low cost and performs well. And there is no gurantee your barrel will shoot those bullets well, it can be a journey to find what it likes. Much depends on your accuracy objectives for satisfaction.

 

[joshb]

It wasn't that long ago when I was in your shoes. Get out your brass and pick out 300 with the same head stamp. Weigh those cases and pick out a hundred or so that are close to the same weight. .1 or .2 grains. Look up the video (here) on finding your lands. Get the Hornady lock and Load tools for measuring cartridges so you can set up your dies to load your bullets to just kissing the lands. Read about headspace and sizing and size your brass so it'll fit in your gun without oversizing. Get some H335 and load some test ammo. Start at around 20 grains and load 5 each at 20, 20.3, 20.6, 20.9 grains and so on and stop at book max for now. My best load is at 22 to 22.2 for a 55 grain bullet. Your 52 grainer and your gun will show you where it likes to be.
Start at 100 yards and report in with your results. Lots more things to read about for later. Case prep, proper shoulder set back, neck tension, annealing, etc. Good luck and Welcome to the forum!
Josh

 

[retired]

sorry but 52 gr is just about the std for case this size in 22 cal.

Shooting PD and BR are two different things.

Depending on what the 52gr bullets are they should get you sub moa. This should be good PD ammo. Your brass will be a problem. You should sort it. Then do the work and see where you are at accuracy wize. You may be surprised how well your brass works.

BR just buy some brass and heavier bullets and test.

I personally can not see a reason to shoot very expensive bullets at PD but that is just me.

 

[retired]

i think they have a 1/9
so he should be good just past 70 gr

52's are not normally a bulk bullet, are you sure these are not 55's?

Wonder what twist rate your barrel has?

 

[Texas10]

First of all, you've bought a rifle that will do exactly what you're looking to do. PD's and some fairly accurate target work 500 yds and under. Your 9 twist barrel will shoot everything up to probably the 77 grain SMK, but if not, certainly the 69 grain bullets of various makes.

Your biggest challenge is going to be sorting out all the information available in this and other forums, and the books you might pick up. A lot of it is geared towards the very technical side of hyper accurate loading and shooting skills and equipment, and would be considered overkill for the job you and have in mind. Learning what tools to buy and what you don't need will save you time and money.

Just to show what a stock Savage will do, I have a stock Savage model 12FV in 223 that I bought on sale at Cabelas for $239 OTD . I put an aftermarket thumbhole stock on it (I know you don't need this) a Vortex Crossfire II scope and decent rings. Loaded with a 53 grain V-Max over IMR 3031 and it'll put 5 in a sub 1/4 moa group all day, and 4 inch clays at 500 yds are not much of a challenge. This combo will dispatch PD's quite easily although I've never had the opportunity.

I have no doubt that your purchase is capable of the same kind of accuracy.

My recommendation for you would be to start by outfitting your rig for the type of shooting you'll be doing mostly. I would guess you'll be using a bi-pod, so get a good one and learn how to use it.

Start here:vvvhttp://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/bugholes-from-bipod/

Some very good shooting ammo can be had cheap, and provide you with decent brass for hand loading. I keep American Eagle tipped varmint in 50 gr on hand as a calibration load. It's capable of putting 3 out of 5 in a very small hole most of the time. Good to use for refining your shooting skills and of course, keep the brass for hand loading.
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/american-eagle®-223-remington-50-grain-gray-tipped-centerfire-rifle-varmint-ammunition

I've had very good luck neck sizing only my 223 brass in my bolt gun using the Lee Ultimate die set. Neck and bullet run out is kept under .002, brass doesn't grow cause I'm not over-working the brass, and I almost never have to trim. Less tools, less work.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HDL9P0K/?tag=accuratescom-20

Get a good set of calipers, and tools to measure your distance to lands for each bullet you choose to hand load. I use my fire formed brass as the basis to make this tool, and keep a dummy round with bullet set to touch lands for each different bullet. PM me and I'll tell you how.

I use foaming bore cleaner to keep the barrel clean. You'll need a bore guide too to keep cleaning products out of your stock/magazine. https://www.possumhollowproducts.com/BORE_GUIDES.html

A balance scale might be a better way to go to measure powder very accurately.

But most of all, spend a lot of time shooting your rig and getting to know is habits, how your bi-pod reacts, and your rear bag works if you use one. I find my 223 shoots better using a free recoil technique off a bi-pod and rear bag. Your's might like something else.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Brians356]

I will add:

CFE 223 is a great powder for 223 Rem.

I seriously question the efficacy of weight (or volume) sorting 223 cases for PD shooting.
-

 

[retired]

some of us like to KNOW where the next shot is going,
not hope where it might go.

I will add:

CFE 223 is a great powder for 223 Rem.

I seriously question the efficacy of weight (or volume) sorting 223 cases for PD shooting.
-

 

[Brians356]

some of us like to KNOW where the next shot is going,
not hope where it might go.

Riiight. Weighing cases does that for you, huh? (I better write this down.) Of course, you'd notice the difference even from a factory Savage.
-

 

[retired]

yes...i have a factory savage...in 223
try again.
i agree not all rifle benefit from fine tuning, but savage has not been krap for a long time.

Riiight. Weighing cases does that for you, huh? (I better write this down.) Of course, you'd notice the difference even from a factory savage.
-

 

[alinwa]

yes...i have a factory savage...in 223
try again.
i agree not all rifle benefit from fine tuning, but savage has not been krap for a long time.

I THINK you're saying "older Savages are better than newer ones" here? Yes?

 

[retired]

al,
savage has move ahead significantly in over all quality
in the near past.
like most they have layers of product lines,
but a bunch better than 15 yrs ago.
i own 4 today,and would not own the older ones.

I THINK you're saying "older Savages are better than newer ones" here? Yes?