Neck turning with donuts

[wboggs]

What is the correct procedure for neck turning to eliminate donuts?
Pros and cons vs inside neck reaming.
Thanks

 

[NorCalMikie]

When seating the bullet, if it doesn't contact the donut, leave it!
If the donut IS in the way, push it to the outside with a mandrel and turn it off. Don't mess with it if it doesn't contact the bullet. Keep it simple.

 

[wboggs]

When seating the bullet, if it doesn't contact the donut, leave it!
If the donut IS in the way, push it to the outside with a mandrel and turn it off. Don't mess with it if it doesn't contact the bullet. Keep it simple.

It is contacting the bullet

 

[fguffey]

When seating the bullet, if it doesn't contact the donut, leave it!
If the donut IS in the way, push it to the outside with a mandrel and turn it off. Don't mess with it if it doesn't contact the bullet. Keep it simple

Unknown to reloaders tools for dealing with donuts have been around longer than the I internet. Before the Internet Lee made a set of dies and tools called 'TARGET MODEL'. In the kit was a sizing die that sized the neck, included in the kit was a neck reamer.. The reamer took care of donuts the reloader never knew they had.

Years later RCBS made a reamer die, the die sized the case. For everything else the die required a reamer, to maintain accuracy the die was designed to keep the reamer centered, again, if the case dad a donut it was removed when the reamer was run through the neck of the die. I have one neck reamer die with reamer.

I have never agreed with the philosophy of just leaving it there. There is something wrong with reducing the inside diameter of the neck as thought a reloader choose to restrict the flow of escaping gas, I guess one day a reloader will call that restriction 'control flow'.

Again, there is no shortage of reamers around here, the one thing I can not do is ream the neck of a case without outside neck support.

And then there is that thing with pushing it out and then cutting if off?

F. Guffey

 

[mikecr]

What's the status of your brass & sizing with this?

 

[Richard Coody]

Unknown to reloaders tools for dealing with donuts have been around longer than the I internet. Before the Internet Lee made a set of dies and tools called 'TARGET MODEL'. In the kit was a sizing die that sized the neck, included in the kit was a neck reamer.. The reamer took care of donuts the reloader never knew they had.

Years later RCBS made a reamer die, the die sized the case. For everything else the die required a reamer, to maintain accuracy the die was designed to keep the reamer centered, again, if the case dad a donut it was removed when the reamer was run through the neck of the die. I have one neck reamer die with reamer.

I have never agreed with the philosophy of just leaving it there. There is something wrong with reducing the inside diameter of the neck as thought a reloader choose to restrict the flow of escaping gas, I guess one day a reloader will call that restriction 'control flow'.

Again, there is no shortage of reamers around here, the one thing I can not do is ream the neck of a case without outside neck support.

And then there is that thing with pushing it out and then cutting if off?

F. Guffey

Opinions Vary

 

[wboggs]

Unknown to reloaders tools for dealing with donuts have been around longer than the I internet. Before the Internet Lee made a set of dies and tools called 'TARGET MODEL'. In the kit was a sizing die that sized the neck, included in the kit was a neck reamer.. The reamer took care of donuts the reloader never knew they had.

Years later RCBS made a reamer die, the die sized the case. For everything else the die required a reamer, to maintain accuracy the die was designed to keep the reamer centered, again, if the case dad a donut it was removed when the reamer was run through the neck of the die. I have one neck reamer die with reamer.

I have never agreed with the philosophy of just leaving it there. There is something wrong with reducing the inside diameter of the neck as thought a reloader choose to restrict the flow of escaping gas, I guess one day a reloader will call that restriction 'control flow'.

Again, there is no shortage of reamers around here, the one thing I can not do is ream the neck of a case without outside neck support.

And then there is that thing with pushing it out and then cutting if off?

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

Long before there was a Lee there was a donut removal tool called a lathe. Now the Lee Target Model loader is long gone but lathes and other turning tools remain abundant. Someone needs to let guffy in on the secret.

 

[wboggs]

I have a lot of those Lee target sets. They were expensive for their day at $49.50
That is why I asked the question about inside neck reaming.
I had some donuts form on 260 brass with 147 elds seated deep in the case.

 

[fguffey]

I had some donuts form on 260 brass with 147 elds seated deep in the case.

My favorite forming die is the 308 W because it is short and larger in diameter, my favorite reamer die is the 243 W die for the same reasons.

I do not have anything in the 6.5/260 neck reaming/forming, if I did it would be too long for the 308W length case and or not large enough in diameter.

There is no shortage of reloaders on this forum that claim 'it can not be done', I do not agree. It does not have to be gaudy and it does not need to be expensive 'except' for the reamer, the reamer was the attractive part about Lee's Target Model die set.

F. Guffey

 

[mikecr]

Why do you think you have donuts,, their cause?
How thick is the donut area compared to the rest of your necks?
And, earlier questions(status of your brass & sizing)

 

[ireload2]

Reaming can remove metal but it is not a very flexible process since the only way to adjust the diameter is to change the reamer size.
Without guidance of a die body the reamer can only follow the existing neck inside diameter. Reaming normally cannot maintain concentricity between the neck OD and ID.
In contrast a piloted turning tool is adjustable to produce any neck wall thickness. When brass is properly expanded and a correct fitting pilot is used a neck turning tool will maintain neck wall thickness to a very small variation. This maintains neck concentricity.

I have a lot of those Lee target sets. They were expensive for their day at $49.50
That is why I asked the question about inside neck reaming.
I had some donuts form on 260 brass with 147 elds seated deep in the case.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

+1 on Reaming normally cannot maintain concentricity between the neck OD and ID.
+1 on When brass is properly expanded and a correct fitting pilot is used a neck turning tool will maintain neck wall thickness to a very small variation. This maintains neck concentricity.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Opinions Vary

And it's a damn good thing we all don't think the same.

If the bullet IS contacting the donut, think about a shorter bullet OR, seating to a longer OAL so you don't have to mess with the donut.
The donut got there because the brass got pushed there when you started moving it around. It had to go somewhere.
Only had one session with formed donuts. Shorter flat base bullets took care of that. Still shot bug holes.

 

[yotehater]

1. Turn necks before necking down.
2. Neck up and turn thickness, neck back down and anneal.
3. Ream

 

[LHSmith]

There is something wrong with reducing the inside diameter of the neck as thought a reloader choose to restrict the flow of escaping gas, I guess one day a reloader will call that restriction 'control flow'.



F. Guffey

Well we know how you feel about BenchRest shooters, so it's fair to say you ain't one of them. And we know from past posts your arsenal does not include sub- MOA capability, so how pray tell could you ever discern a negative impact imparted by donuts on targets.

 

[Richard Coody]

What is the correct procedure for neck turning to eliminate donuts?
Pros and cons vs inside neck reaming.
Thanks

whatever works for you!

but......

pretty simple actually.

if you notice most experienced shooters cut slightly into the shoulder when they neck turn their brass. Reason is that shoulder brass is thicker than the neck and by cutting into the shoulder a bit you thin that section that will soon become neck. After several cycles of firing and sizing that shoulder brass migrates into the neck. You can kind of monitor this by how often you need to trim. Many cartridges don't require much trimming. i believe that has a lot to do with the angle of the shoulder and how hot the cartridge is ran.

i use a mandrel in my final sizing process. if there is a donut developing it will be clearly visable then. Simple process to just turn the neck and trim it out. keeps you neck thickness consistent and eliminates the donut.

if you use a bushing die you won't see the donut developing. won't know it is there without running an expander mandrel through the neck or feeling it on bullet seating.

 

[wboggs]

The bullet goes to the donut and encounters resistance. Shooting long 147 eld bullets that extend deep in the case with my throat dimensions. It does not happen when boattail junction is seated in the neck.
Thanks to all of you for the info. I have 21st century neck turning gear and will do that.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Throating reamer. Make the barrel fit the bullet and dont lose case capacity

 

[NorCalMikie]

It does not happen when boattail junction is seated in the neck ??.

There's you answer. Swap bullet, don't change the chamber/throat. Once cut, you can't go back.