headspace/shoulder bump issue plus ram hitting bottom of die

[rockwind1]

so if you look at the video i uploaded to youtube ( i think it is short, 2 minutes) i think a video is worth a million words.

but readers digest version, checking headspace by bumping the shoulder a little bit and putting in gun without firing pin assembly. my unfired round(federal fgmm 7.62x51) brass measured head to shoulder using hornady shoulder guage is 3.626 (digital calipers). the fired brass shoulder length is 3.6335(on the case i am messing around with) so it looks like it stretched about .007 to .008.

i followed redding directions, screw die down to ram, back off 1/4. tried couple passes with no effect. turn die quite a bit in my impatience and suddenly the case is 3.623, so i bumped it about 10 thou, so it is even shorter than loaded round. i figure it is going to fit super easy and my bolt handle will have zero resistance, but it didn't seem so, defintely not as hard as a loaded round, but watched video's indicate it should be easier. puzzled, i figured i will bump shoulder even more, it's a throwaway case now anyway. so i index my press with sharpie markes indicating 1/16 turns, which should be about .004. so i turn it 1/16th. nothing, i turn it a bit more, 1/32 about, and then the shoulder bumps about .001, still has resistance (i mean light resistance, would totally work but i am trying for almost no resistance) so i screw in the die a bit more but i am not getting any more bump. it appears my ram is bottoming out on my die, like there is no more adjustment room.

so i am unsure what to do, i had planned to only bump the fire formed brass shoulder .001 to .003, in that range, which should have given me plenty of headspace and a super easy to close bolt.

i am not sure what i am doing wrong, don't see the need to keep messing up brass until i see my error, i think that i just don't have that smooth of a bolt maybe and i dont' know how to "feel" the headspace opening up but on the other hand, it still is not as easy as no brass in the chamber so it bolt must be hitting something?????. it is a factory rem 700 bolt in an old rem pss 308

since it is fireformed should i just bump it .002 and shoot it despite bolt no being super easy?

i really want to know what i did wrong so i will know next time.

i've rambled on enough, if anyone can post constructive stuff, i would be very appreciative. thanks,

 

[dkhunt14]

Could be the spring pressure from the ejector. It could also be a bad fit from die to chamber. Matt

 

[hottshott526]

+1 for the ejector.

Also check the overall length of the brass. That's probably not it but check to be sure.

 

[Richard Coody]

the fired brass shoulder length is 3.6335(on the case i am messing around with) so it looks like it stretched about .007 to .008.

now how many times fired. usually takes about 3 firings for brass to become fully fireformed. until then you really don't want to set up your shoulder bump.

take one of your fired cases with no sizing and chamber it and get back to us.

how new is the rifle. might need a little breaking in. have you got grease on the back of the locking lugs. the way the rifle is feeding the case looks a little odd to me. how does it feed and chamber factory ammo? doesn't look really bad to me. i believe i would just shoot it and see what happens. of course not with brass bumped 0.010.

measure an unfired case, a fired case and your resized case at several points from the base of the case up to about an inch and get back to us.

 

[KMart]

Is your F/L sizing die a type S with a bushing? Or a standard type F/L sizer?

 

[LHSmith]

Was this brass fired in another rifle? Is the bolt from the original rifle?

 

[LHSmith]

Just watched the video. I believe your bolt timing is not optimal or may be battered from never having been lubed. Grease the bolt cam ramp. If there is little resistance after the ramp engagement -you should be good to go.

 

[hogpatrol]

May have crushed the bottom of the shoulder. Check to see if you feel a burr at the shoulder body junction and check the diameter at that point before and after.

 

[coford]

You need to remove your ejector and place the case under the extractor to use this method. Otherwise you will not get a good "feel" when you open and close the bolt. Also I suspect the base of your case is maybe touching the chamber wall and not being fully resized by your die. I ran into the same problem once. You may need a small base die. You already went shorter with the shoulder so look for interference at the case head.

 

[dkhunt14]

When I take the fire control out of my bolts, they all fall shut on their own. Yours seems to be needing a little push to close bolt. Matt

 

[LHSmith]

Also, you may have a front scope base screw rubbing on the front of the bolt- check for rub marks.

 

[JFrank]

Is this problem only with this brass? Assuming you've tried other brass.
How can you get 3.6 shoulder length out of a 308 that has a max cartridge length of 2.015
???
SPJ

 

[hogpatrol]

Is this problem only with this brass? Assuming you've tried other brass.
How can you get 3.6 shoulder length out of a 308 that has a max cartridge length of 2.015
???
SPJ

Not resetting the calipers to zero.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

the fired brass shoulder length is 3.6335(on the case i am messing around with) so it looks like it stretched about .007 to .008.

now how many times fired. usually takes about 3 firings for brass to become fully fireformed. until then you really don't want to set up your shoulder bump.

take one of your fired cases with no sizing and chamber it and get back to us.

how new is the rifle. might need a little breaking in. have you got grease on the back of the locking lugs. the way the rifle is feeding the case looks a little odd to me. how does it feed and chamber factory ammo? doesn't look really bad to me. i believe i would just shoot it and see what happens. of course not with brass bumped 0.010.

measure an unfired case, a fired case and your resized case at several points from the base of the case up to about an inch and get back to us.

Richard, Where you say you don’t want to set the shoulder bump until brass is fully fire formed. How are you sizing the first few loads, neck sizing or full length? Thank you.

 

[dkhunt14]

Is this problem only with this brass? Assuming you've tried other brass.
How can you get 3.6 shoulder length out of a 308 that has a max cartridge length of 2.015
???
SPJ

He is using the comparator in the reading. Can't rezero a regular caliper. The measurement doent matter as long as comparing the before and after. Matt

 

[Richard Coody]

Richard, Where you say you don’t want to set the shoulder bump until brass is fully fire formed. How are you sizing the first few loads, neck sizing or full length? Thank you.

just set your full length sizing die to only size the neck and not bump the shoulder. it is trial and error. just back the die off and then slowly size a case and look at the neck and you will see how much has been sized. little by little adjust the die down until you are sizing most of the neck. press should do this easily. if you feel more resistance then you are at the shoulder.

have you tried chambering one of your fired cases?

 

[dmoran]

Wow.... waiting for "guffey" to find this one. It's like cheese on a mouse trap !.!.!

Reloaders are going to take a hell of a shellacking when he does.... lol
Donovan

 

[RGRobinett]

I believe that Joe R, above, is likely onto something - it is not uncommon for the Redding 'Type S' dies to "fail" resizing the web-diameter, while more than adequately setting-back the shoulder. This is common when the virgin brass diameter and the chamber are a close fit, with a minimum chamber diameter, thus the sizing die does not reduce the web-diameter enough to counter the spring-back, if it resizes the web at all. This results in both difficult chambering (often mistaken for tight head-space), and difficult primary extraction - the latter of which worsens with repeated firings. Good shootin'! RG

 

[jepp2]

Would be really helpful to know "what" is causing the interference. You can always use a Sharpie and paint the case. When you go to chamber it, the rubbed off marking will tell you what the problem is.

In the old days before Sharpies, used to smoke the case with a candle flame. Easier to remove.

 

[Zero333]

Ejector and Extractor... possibly.

Calipers tell you all you need to know.

Even if you take the Ejector out, there still might be a bit of dragging with a Factory 700 action. Maybe because the bolt face and lugs are not parallel to the chamber ?

Measure with Calipers before and after sizing. Not only Base to Shoulder Datum, but also 0.200" above the extractor grove and just below the shoulder. Just to make sure.