Is Palma D.O.A.?

[Mudcat]

And exactly why I spend some much time, money and effort on the juniors. And, its far from easy, thats for dang sure, due to so many reasons, but it will pay off, I hope.

 

[DR_2297]

1000 yard ranges with pits don’t exactly grow on trees either. I have been wanting to move beyond 600 yards but Malvern, Atterbury, MTC and Camp Grayling are all 4+ hours away and that generally means a long weekend to shoot now and again. I have the means to participate but vacation time really is the premium. Especially so since ORPA fell apart and the NRA went to Indiana and more or less left CP without LR for the past few years.

On the other hand I can fire reduced course HP, XTC HP and mid range almost every weekend from now until end of October without driving more than an hour and a half.

I am actually excited that CMP added LR to the schedule @ Perry. Extended my stay by a week this year just to participate. Doesn’t hurt that I am less than an hour away. Maybe if there is a good showing they will add some LR dates @ CP to go along with the XTC matches they have begun to hold outside of the National Matches.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Though I do not know all of the particulars, Bob Jones (the sights guy) has TWO rifles for sale that would be good for juniors as of an hour ago. Pre-64 Win 70 actions with SS Medesha barrels (28" 1:13T), Dunlop stocks and sights. Best to call him for a rifle that a guy can get into for a grand each. www.bjonessights.com

Yeah...wrong place for it here. But, Palma types will see it first on this thread

 

[riflewoman]

Palma has a bit of a sour rep at the moment. It was supposed to be (and in the ancient days of the late 1800s ) a bring your best stuff and shots and well shoot. But for politics and idiocy on the part of several Defense Departments, we are essentially stuck with stinking British Fullbore wrapped up a different suit. About the only good thing is that we don’t have to use issued Radway Green “Greenspot” ammunition. The quicker Palma, in its present configuration, dies the better, IMO.

F CLASS also needs to return to sanity. I knew George Faquharson briefly and I’m not sure he’d recognize the sport that bears his name. All he wanted to do was shoot his rifle which did NOT conform to the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association rules. He may have had a bipod but I recall that he shot from a sling like the rest of the competitors. Now they have steerable rests, sand bags and all kinds of foofraw, some of which would likely irritate him.

 

[Erud]

Palma has a bit of a sour rep at the moment. It was supposed to be (and in the ancient days of the late 1800s ) a bring your best stuff and shots and well shoot. But for politics and idiocy on the part of several Defense Departments, we are essentially stuck with stinking British Fullbore wrapped up a different suit. About the only good thing is that we don’t have to use issued Radway Green “Greenspot” ammunition. The quicker Palma, in its present configuration, dies the better, IMO.

This was worded to sort of oddly, so I’m not 100% sure I am following your meaning. What would you like to see different about US Palma?

 

[riflewoman]

Well, for one, why limit it to 223 (5.56) with 80 grain and 308 (7.62) with 155 grain?

 

[corning]

Well, for one, why limit it to 223 (5.56) with 80 grain and 308 (7.62) with 155 grain?

Why not? The bullet weight restrictions are reputed to "level the playing field", when shooting internationally. US rules for Palma are currently unrestricted bullet weight.

 

[XTR]

Well, for one, why limit it to 223 (5.56) with 80 grain and 308 (7.62) with 155 grain?

Palma does not limit bullet weights. I know a lot of Palma shooters who run the 185 Juggs, and one who shot a 448 at Perry with 90VLDs. Full Bore F class doesn't do it either, only Full Bore sling does that.

 

[Erud]

Well, for one, why limit it to 223 (5.56) with 80 grain and 308 (7.62) with 155 grain?

I believe there are some really good reasons to limit bullet weights, and roughly 80% of the Palma-shooting population seems to agree. However, as the guys above me have mentioned, that isn’t actually in the rules, and it never has been. You can shoot any bullet weight you want in US Palma.

So I guess that leads me to a natural follow-up question; do you want US Palma to die over a rule that has never even actually existed? Are you a Palma shooter?

 

[USMCDOC]

Palma does not limit bullet weights. I know a lot of Palma shooters who run the 185 Juggs, and one who shot a 448 at Perry with 90VLDs. Full Bore F class doesn't do it either, only Full Bore sling does that.

 

[Erud]

View attachment 1041193

Good score. Yours? Details?

 

[USMCDOC]

Good score. Yours? Details?

Yes mine.. Palma Team .223 with 90's Barnard Action Rock Creek 7.2 twist barrel 31" Chamber was Wylde and throated for the 90's Eliseo stock Shot at Perry.. 2012 if i remember correctly

 

[Erud]

Very nice. A 449 is a tough Palma score with a .308, I’m pretty sure that a .223 wouldn’t make it any easier! Do you still shoot Palma? It’s a pretty small community, do we know each other?

Erik Rhode

 

[USMCDOC]

Very nice. A 449 is a tough Palma score with a .308, I’m pretty sure that a .223 wouldn’t make it any easier! Do you still shoot Palma? It’s a pretty small community, do we know each other?

Erik Rhode

Yeah.. that was a special day indeed! PM'd ya!

 

[Jetjock1]

Why not? The bullet weight restrictions are reputed to "level the playing field", when shooting internationally. US rules for Palma are currently unrestricted bullet weight.

You are correct but fullbore rules limited to less than 156gr bullet

 

[clowdis]

Well, for one, why limit it to 223 (5.56) with 80 grain and 308 (7.62) with 155 grain?

You can shoot "match rifle" and you're not limited to anything or any caliber. In US Palma you can shoot any bullet in the .308 and .223. One point of Palma is not to create an equipment race like there has been in F-class. As such I would like to see the US adopt the 155gr. bullet max. rule. We should be out to test the shooter and not the latest and greatest equipment. That's what individual competition is about. Palma may have a sour reputation as you say because it is hard, and because it is hard it will attract a certain class of competitor (mostly top notch shooters) that like to compete on a level playing field and test themselves (not their equipment) against their fellow competitors. This makes it hard for new shooters to make a dent at the awards but if they keep improving they can make it to the top and I've never seen anyone deny help to a junior who sincerely wants to improve themselves. I would stop short of calling Palma the "major league" of long range shooting, but if you want to be good at it you've got to work at it.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

As such I would like to see the US adopt the 155gr. bullet max. rule.

Who is going to pull bullets at every match in the country to verify bullet weight?

 

[Erud]

Who is going to pull bullets at every match in the country to verify bullet weight?

The same person that checks to make sure that no one is shooting a 7mm-.08 out of of .308 brass under the current rules.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Right, good luck with that.

I understand that you have some experience now and are all hyped up about Palma Palma Palma...but what you propose not only puts additional burden on Match Directors, it also serves no real purpose in the grand scheme of things. This bullet weight business should be the very least of concerns to anyone. Be concerned with bringing people into the sport and growing the game, within the rules as they exist. If someone has an old course rifle with a 24" barrel and wants to shoot 200 grain bullets at a Palma match...LET THEM SHOOT. That is precisely why there has been no bullet rule with NRA.

 

[effendude]

Who is going to pull bullets at every match in the country to verify bullet weight?

I would sure hope that the majority of the people participating in shooting sports are people of integrity. Why would one want to cheat? The prize money, if any, won't buy a box of bullets. Looking at the nice trophy on the shelf than you won by cheating wouldn't be too fun either. I have only experienced questionable behavior a couple times. When those people were called out, they quietly drifted away from shooting. Cheating is truly a rare occurance.
Scott