Laurie,
When ever the opportunity comes to shoot along side of your fellow countrymen and women I am always impressed at how well they shoot the original 2155 bullets in 14" twist barrels! Plenty of cleans at 1K. Keeps me humble...
2156 serria
- Thread starter Mark C
- Start date
Laurie,
When ever the opportunity comes to shoot along side of your fellow countrymen and women I am always impressed at how well they shoot the original 2155 bullets in 14" twist barrels! Plenty of cleans at 1K. Keeps me humble...
Laurie,
I used N-550 with the 2155 and made it to MASTER before running out of eyeball....age
With our NRA specifying the 2155 in its contract ammunition, it is very much the norm for most of our 'TR' (ie sling) shooters. They still do VERY well with it as you say. last year's 'Imperial Matches' at Bisley saw some days with light winds and producing amazing scores .......... the standard target has become too big (again!) and I believe has some ring sizes reduced a little from this year.
I doubt though if many still use 14-twist barrels, I believe 13 is the norm now. (Although the 14 pitch does fine for the old 2155.) The 14 twist is really a throwback to the days of the Radway Green 'Green Spot' 7.62 sniper round with its very short 146gn FMJBT bullets and desperately poor concentricity where there were proven benefits in spinning bullets as slowly as possible. (How TR shooters ever connected with the target frame never mind centre with this ammunition in 1,000 yard matches astonishes me even now!)
Laurie,
I used N-550 with the 2155 and made it to MASTER before running out of eyeball....age
I used some stonking N550 loads in 308 in the early days of FTR, especially in the first couple of years of the 185gn Juggernaut being available. A lot of GB FTR competitors used it with the 210gn Berger LRBT, although most people here have switched now to the cooler burning N150 with 185gn and heavier bullets to maximise barrel life.
A common top FTR shooter pairing was a 155 with H4895 or VarGet loaded up plus same number rounds with the 210 LRBT and N150 or N550 for a GB F-Class Association league round (two days and four to six matches depending on venue, normally 800 yards and beyond). A decision would be made each morning as to which one to use depending on the latest weather forecast. Some competitors still do this and the 210gn bullet remains popular with some despite more recent arrivals such as the Hybrids and 200.20X.
Could never get quite the tight SD/ES numbers out of the large primer brass using Varget that I could with H4895 (2155's), unless I stumbled upon a really stellar lot of soft brisance primers. When Varget first hit the consumer shelves in '95, you could get 2950fps with 45.8 grains out of a 30" barrel without much trouble using the heavier Winchester brass of the time. Many shooters then were using the .3065/.298 barrels. I never squeezed the H*ll out of bullets and preferred the .3075 or .3080 bore. Some folks would use the 155-157gr WW brass if they could lay their hands on it (or the WCC cases). Eventually, that was the weight of the new Win case lots (about 1999) and powder charge weights of Varget slowly increased to 46.0/46.5gr to get to the magical 2950fps. About 2000-2001, the Lapua cases were all the rage and even still, Varget charge weights with 155's increased to 46.5 and even 47.0 grains to get it up to speed. Then, along about 2003-ish, Varget went to the other extreme regarding pressure 
Some folks that did not re-work their tight loads after a change in powder lot #'s suddenly ran into sticky bolts, blown primers, gas cutting of the bolt faces, etc, etc.
A few shooters in my area were using N150 at some huge charge weights with 155's. Not sure how they were stuffing that much of it in a case (maybe a 2-story drop tube), but they were claiming to get 3100fps. Some had good success with N140 and one guy did pretty well with N135. Knowing what I know now and with the availability of the small primer cases, I'd likely use H4895, but might even be half tempted to try IMR8208XBR with any 155gr projectile.
Some folks that did not re-work their tight loads after a change in powder lot #'s suddenly ran into sticky bolts, blown primers, gas cutting of the bolt faces, etc, etc.A few shooters in my area were using N150 at some huge charge weights with 155's. Not sure how they were stuffing that much of it in a case (maybe a 2-story drop tube), but they were claiming to get 3100fps. Some had good success with N140 and one guy did pretty well with N135. Knowing what I know now and with the availability of the small primer cases, I'd likely use H4895, but might even be half tempted to try IMR8208XBR with any 155gr projectile.
I was shooting with a member of the GB FTR team on a 100 yard BR range last spring and he was developing a load for his wife's 308 FTR rifle. He called me over to his bench and showed me the Magnetospeed display, an average of just over 3,100 fps and very tight ES .... to which I said "So ...?" knowing his routine load with 155s in Lapua 'Palma' brass runs some 40 fps faster. "That's from Viht N150" he said. I was (as they say in Northern England) 'gobsmacked' as I'd never have believed you could get those velocities from the powder. Groups were excellent too. The load was on the wrong side of 50gn (a longish freebore chambering), and he admitted the degree of charge compression was immense, but he did it. He also said his own rifle shot poorly with this combination, but his other half's rifle was the other way round refusing to perform well with the usual 155gn bullet propellants. He'd tried N150 knowing that I'd reported good results previously, but I imagine more out of sheer desperation! ('Palma' brass again here.)
Hey Laurie do you think they are as good as the Berger 155.5 full bore as far as accuracy goes ?
I just couldn't give you a straight answer on that Coyote Bill. I have a lot of experience with the 155.5gn Berger and the old 2155 Sierra, but much less with the Sierra 2156. As I said, it seems to be more picky over seating / jump than either the Berger or its MatchKing predecessor, so I've not explored its use in any depth.
What I can say over the bullet companies' products in general is that whilst Berger has been the industry leader in both design and production QC for some years, Sierra has really raised its game over the last year or two. Today's SMKS and TMKs are very, very well made and the latest models have BCs as good as any around. When I started handloading some 30 odd years ago, I'd go straight to a Sierra if I wanted a good match load or I wanted to see how well a rifle would shoot. It was a rare barrel that wouldn't do well with an SMK back then and who cared about BCs anyway? I certainly didn't as 600 yards was a long-range match for me. Move on a couple of decades to 5-10 years ago, and I shot precious few Sierra models, the 107gn 6mm SMK and that was about it. Now in 2017/18, I'm shooting a lot of Sierras again - the 160gn TMK in 7mm-08, the 175gn SMK in 284 (looking at the very high BC 183gn SMK for this too) and will be trying new 30-cal Sierras later this year; even the 0.224 90gn SMK in 223 Rem that I wouldn't have given the time of day to some years back after recommendations from 223 FTR shooters on this forum.
As Erud and other say in their posts, the 2156 is a good shooting bullet with the right load. Take Erud's recommendation of the 50 thou' jump and whack it out as fast as you can and it should work fine for you. You don't say what sort of rifle and distances you have in mind. If it is short / mid-range, the older 2155, a real 'sweetie' of a bullet (if one can describe a chunk of copper alloy and lead as that) may be the better / safer choice. For 800 yards and beyond, you definitely want / need the higher BC of the current 2156 'Palma MatchKing' or an equivalent.
What I can say over the bullet companies' products in general is that whilst Berger has been the industry leader in both design and production QC for some years, Sierra has really raised its game over the last year or two. Today's SMKS and TMKs are very, very well made and the latest models have BCs as good as any around. When I started handloading some 30 odd years ago, I'd go straight to a Sierra if I wanted a good match load or I wanted to see how well a rifle would shoot. It was a rare barrel that wouldn't do well with an SMK back then and who cared about BCs anyway? I certainly didn't as 600 yards was a long-range match for me. Move on a couple of decades to 5-10 years ago, and I shot precious few Sierra models, the 107gn 6mm SMK and that was about it. Now in 2017/18, I'm shooting a lot of Sierras again - the 160gn TMK in 7mm-08, the 175gn SMK in 284 (looking at the very high BC 183gn SMK for this too) and will be trying new 30-cal Sierras later this year; even the 0.224 90gn SMK in 223 Rem that I wouldn't have given the time of day to some years back after recommendations from 223 FTR shooters on this forum.
As Erud and other say in their posts, the 2156 is a good shooting bullet with the right load. Take Erud's recommendation of the 50 thou' jump and whack it out as fast as you can and it should work fine for you. You don't say what sort of rifle and distances you have in mind. If it is short / mid-range, the older 2155, a real 'sweetie' of a bullet (if one can describe a chunk of copper alloy and lead as that
) may be the better / safer choice. For 800 yards and beyond, you definitely want / need the higher BC of the current 2156 'Palma MatchKing' or an equivalent.47.0g Varget
Thanks mike
If your using Lapua Brass don't just jump into that load. Winchester in the past had more internal volume so it handled 47grians with ease.
Working up from 45.5gr to 47.0 would be very wise. You should see a very wide node between 46 to 47gr of Varget.
Thanks
One thing that you should really keep in mind is that speed is not everything. "Uniformity" in velocity for narrow elevation on target is what you really seek. A loss of 50fps starting velocity means very little in the grand scheme of things. That 50fps difference in muzzle velocity translates into minimal wind drift difference at 1000yds "if" you can read conditions reasonably well and fire within a tight wind parameter. My absolute best Palma load that I ever fired strolled along at a leisurely 2930fps with H4895. It was a real dog to be certain. Never felt that I was at a disadvantage using that load when shooting against others getting warp drive velocities or if they used big bullets. YMMV
Thank you 10 x ! I shot today at 300 yards wit 46 grains of N150 30 thou off the lands and had a great water line . I’d say I’m in the 2930 range
Is that the powder you use now for your Palma load ? Do your shoot 2156 as well ?
Ok thanks
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