6 ppc question

[Bruce W]

At what temp would you consider using H4198 as opposed to 133 or lt 32.
And where does H322 fit in this order.

I read where fellers are using 4198 and 322 in cooler temps. Previous experience appreciated.
Thanks, Bruce

 

[expiper]

blend the 4198 and 322,,,Roger
PS,,,take all your stuff and go to a NBRSA/IBS 100/200yd match and you will learn more in one w/e than in a lifetime of talking about it,,,

 

[Bruce W]

really, 50/50 or more 4198 as it gets colder ?

 

[Link]

following

 

[Link]

I shot the smallest group ever fireforming with h4I98. I was told I would get in trouble with that powder and went to LT. Maybe I should revisit ?

 

[BoydAllen]

Hint: It seems to me that 4198's reputation for showing rapid pressure increase with temperature increase in warm weather came from IMR rather than H4198 and while the speeds are similar, they are not the same powder at all because the H is one of Hodgdon's "Extreme" powders, specifically designed so that it will NOT show large pressure differences with changes in ambient temperature. The other issue with the IMR was the shape of the grains which made the powder more difficult to throw than others that were commonly used for the 6PPC. I do not have any of the H but I am told that it does not have that problem. So, IMO the H would be worth trying. If I were shooting more, I would, but given that my supply of 6PPC suitable powders is larger than my current needs I do not have much reason to go looking for another.

 

[Bruce W]

I did once load a hot load of H4198 in a 7 BR pistol that did show higher presuure at a higher temp then when I developed that load. However it was far over the recommended max charge. LINK,I am also shooting LT 32 with good success . Now that Im retired I am looking to shoot into the colder temps and was info gathering for colder temps. Maybe LT 32 will work in the cold . Maybe give LT 30 a try. But I have an eight pound jug of H4198 to shoot up. Its crazy all options that can be had when reloading. Hence the journey. Bruce

 

[Link]

Doesn't seem to be much info being shared here. I think Boyd has given us a good hint. There are a few guys shooting H4I98 in my area for the cold weather. I was told never mix powders.? Link

 

[LHSmith]

Doesn't seem to be much info being shared here. I think Boyd has given us a good hint. There are a few guys shooting H4I98 in my area for the cold weather. I was told never mix powders.? Link

The tune window for the 6 PPC is narrow......you have to continually tweak the load during a match to stay on top of the conditions. Any subtle change due to different lot of powder or the manner powder was stored will affect this tune. Supposedly those that are lucky enough to have some T-32 powder do not require hardly any tweaking. IMHO, T-32 has never been successfully duplicated - close but no cigar. The 30 BR on the other hand is a dream to use....... allows one to concentrate on conditions instead of trying to maintain tune.
Yes , my notes say H-322 (extreme) does well in cooler temps. Again, there were many versions of 322 through the years and burn rates varied considerably.

 

[Bruce W]

yes tuning is required shooting the ppc . But my experience ( limited) has been that N133 just doesn't group like it does on a 90 degree day with lots of humidity. I thought many time about converting to the 30 BR. I will try some H4198 when the temps get below 60 *. I dont think Ill be venturing too far past 26 grains with this powder. I could also shoot lighter bullets . I had a xp 100 pistol that loved 55 Nos BT and 27.5 gr. of RL7. Again seeking expertise > Bruce

 

[BartsBullets]

At what temp would you consider using H4198 as opposed to 133 or lt 32.
And where does H322 fit in this order.

I read where fellers are using 4198 and 322 in cooler temps. Previous experience appreciated.
Thanks, Bruce

Bruce,

Part of the lack of answers I think is 4198 really isn't considered at all in the 6ppc reguardless of Temp. Many of us have tried 4198 and 322 in the ppc and couldn't stay on top of it. Really you'll just have to play with it and see what works for you.
Like you I'm not crazy about 133. I tend to shoot more LT32 and LT 30. On the flip side I think 133 is much easier to work with durning the winter months.

Bart

 

[Bruce W]

Bart, In your expieriance , does LT 32 loose velocity as temps decline, much like N133. It seems that most powders do and some the spread is more than others. That being said, do you use LT 30 in cooler temps ? Thanks, Bruce

 

[BartsBullets]

Bart, In your expieriance , does LT 32 loose velocity as temps decline, much like N133. It seems that most powders do and some the spread is more than others. That being said, do you use LT 30 in cooler temps ? Thanks, Bruce

Bruce,

I use all three powders Year around. I've chronographed nearly every shot I've put down range at home and in competition for the past two years. In the winter time velocities will slow down significantly with all three powders (equally).

It's not necessary to shoot a hotter powder in the winter (cold) to make a gun shoot. What I've seen is tune window drops about 100 fps from what is shooting durning the summer. You can run the bullet up to summer time velocities but it won't shoot there.

Back to your question.
My preferred powder is V133 durning the winter months, I've shot 29.2 to 29.6 for the last three years in the winter. When it's cold and high humidity V133 is a model citizen. It just becomes a wild child when it warms up and humidity drops. When I'm competing LT30 is my preferred powder.

Bart

 

[Bruce W]

Shot this am . my gun is a panda/bartlein 268 neck 0 freebore with 1035 rounds down the bore . bullet was Hammond 62 gr. and cases have 7 firings on them . cci br 4 primer from left to right 1st group is lt 32 but is not a true representation of what this load does. bullets were loose in neck. next 4 are H4198 with about .002 neck tension. Primers look good and are comparable to the LT 32 load. measured with a calipers the best load is about .150. I also micrometered the case heads and there are no differances. Just passing it along . Usuall disclaimers apply .Bruce

 

[BartsBullets]

Shot this am . my gun is a panda/bartlein 268 neck 0 freebore with 1035 rounds down the bore . bullet was Hammond 62 gr. and cases have 7 firings on them . cci br 4 primer from left to right 1st group is lt 32 but is not a true representation of what this load does. bullets were loose in neck. next 4 are H4198 with about .002 neck tension. Primers look good and are comparable to the LT 32 load. measured with a calipers the best load is about .150. I also micrometered the case heads and there are no differances. Just passing it along . Usuall disclaimers apply .Bruce

Good shooting!
Bart

 

[Bruce W]

Bart was right, The n133 worked well in 50 degree weather. catch is ,that the powder charge increment changed with every serveral degrees of temp change to maintain accuracy. I can understand why people load at the range. I want to avoid that and will continue to work with LT 32. Once you found that majic 10th of a grain with 133 it shot well for that given temperature.I believe I will spend more attention to throat wear and measure this every so many round to maintain that ideal seating depth. Good shooting to all. Bruce

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I can't quantify it with a specific number but it's very close to when hell freezes over. Lol!

Just kidding. I've never shot 4198 in a 6ppc that I can remember.

Good luck!

 

[Bruce W]

Genn Beggs in past years shot it. I did have a nice group with it, 5 shots@.150ish

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Genn Beggs in past years shot it. I did have a nice group with it, 5 shots@.150ish

Was that in a 6 PPc or 6 Beggs? The Beggs is a bit smaller. Leaving the bore and bullet weight the same, but the case capacity smaller, will generally result in a cartridge that prefers a bit faster powders.

Also, if you leave capacity unchanged, increasing the bore size will rapidly change which powders work best. 30BR vs 6BR, with similar bullet weights, i.e. 107 vs 110gr..the 30 will like much faster powders. Varget is a common choice in a 6BR while H4198 is the most common powder in the 30BR. It relates to expansion area and the larger bore will always do better with the faster of these two choices.

I try to view the expansion area as from bolt face to the point where peak pressure occurs in the bore, which is usually 3-4 inches down the barrel. That said, the cases are basically the same volume, bullets nearly same weight, but the bore has a lot more area. The area of the larger bore being the biggest difference and biggest factor in this scenario in the 30 needing a much faster powder than the 6.
FWIW.

 

[Bruce W]

prior to the beggs cartridge he shot H4198. I believe the Beggs line was created around using H4198