Resizing Failure

[FatOldMIHunter]

I have some used brass that I have fired in an old rifle. I can't get it to chamber empty in a new rifle (same caliber), even after using an RCBS fl resizing die and an RCBS shell holder. New factory ammo and some of the ammo reloaded for the old rifle will chamber normally, so I don't think that I need to check headspace with G&NG guages, but some of the reloaded ammo and any brass that has been fired at least twice in the old rifle will not chamber in the new. I used a Hornady Headspace Comparator and found up to .010" variance between the shortest (base to comparator) and the longest. Most of the brass that fails is more than .005" longer than the longest brass that will chamber.

It really seems like I need to grind some height off the shell holder so fl resizing will bump the shoulder more, but I'm open to other advice.

 

[ireload2]

No just try this.
Lube the case uniformly.
Remove the decapping rod from your FL die to run this test.

Size your case very slowly and let the ram dwell in the full up position for about 3 to 5 seconds.
Then retract the case turn about 1/3 turn. Then size it again slowly and dwell in full up position 3 to 5 seconds. Repeat all steps and resize a 3rd time.
This slow and repeated sizing holds the brass in the FL die long enough to creep and match the die dimensions.

RCBS FL dies seem to be dimensioned about half way between go and no go gage length. With a minimum chamber they produce brass that is sized about .002 too long. To insure you get the shortest possible brass when it will not chamber just size it multiple times very slowly.
When you reinstall the expander pull it through the case neck only one time.

Your gage is showing that your sized brass varies a lot. Your brass will probably be ok if it is all uniformly sized to the minimum your die will produce. That means slow and repeated sizing.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

No just try this.
Lube the case uniformly.
Remove the decapping rod from your FL die to run this test.

Size your case very slowly and let the ram dwell in the full up position for about 3 to 5 seconds.
Then retract the case turn about 1/3 turn. Then size it again slowly and dwell in full up position 3 to 5 seconds. Repeat all steps and resize a 3rd time.
This slow and repeated sizing holds the brass in the FL die long enough to creep and match the die dimensions.

RCBS FL dies seem to be dimensioned about half way between go and no go gage length. With a minimum chamber they produce brass that is sized about .002 too long. To insure you get the shortest possible brass when it will not chamber just size it multiple times very slowly.
When you reinstall the expander pull it through the case neck only one time.

Your gage is showing that your sized brass varies a lot. Your brass will probably be ok if it is all uniformly sized to the minimum your die will produce. That means slow and repeated sizing.

This did not work. I held the ram jammed against the die body for 10 seconds four times on four different cases and still the comparator showed the base-to-datum to be .006 too long. The die body's chamber is simply too long. Either the bottom of the die body needs to be reduced or the shell holder needs to be reduced in height or some other solution needs to be employed.

 

[Rsadams]

You said in your first post it's not resizing enough and in your last post you said it's .006 to much..?

If it's resizing to much back the die out and useing your headspace comparator on a round that will chamber , match it...

Or if it's at the bottom get small base dies..

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Back the die out...

I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

[Rsadams]

I don't understand what you mean by this.

If it's resizing to much unscrew the die out of the press so it won't... But it's only going to reach so far down , if it's to fat right above the case head were the die can't reach you will need small base dies.... What caliber..?

 

[Rsadams]

It's not uncommon for one chamber to be larger than another...

 

[Someoldguy]

You said in your first post it's not resizing enough and in your last post you said it's .006 to much..?

If it's resizing to much back the die out and useing your headspace comparator on a round that will chamber , match it...

Or if it's at the bottom get small base dies..

On the contrary, it sounds to me like he's saying the FLS brass exceeds the SAAMI spec on maximum brass length by .006". This is, of course assuming the OP knows how to interpret the results from a Hornady Comparator to SAAMI specifications.

 

[Rsadams]

Could be , I think one rifles chamber is much bigger and it's not sizing down far enough...

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

On the contrary, it sounds to me like he's saying the FLS brass exceeds the SAAMI spec on maximum brass length by .006". This is, of course assuming the OP knows how to interpret the results from a Hornady Comparator to SAAMI specifications.

I'm not comparing the brass to SAAMI specs. I'm comparing it to rounds that successfully chamber in the rifle. Remington Core-Lokt factory ammo successfully chambers in the rifle and gives me a base-to-datum of 1.762". Some handloads with Remington and PMC brass that was fired once in the old rifle have a base-to-datum as high 1.766" and still successfully chamber. Both of these are as measured with the Hornady comparator. The brass and reloads that won't chamber have base-to-datums exceeding 1.767", with most of them being at or above 1.772". These are at least twice fired in the old rifle and presumably fully fire formed to its chamber. The die is successfully resizing the diameters to fit the new rifle, but not setting the shoulder datum back to 1.766".

New brass will presumably fire-form to the new rifle's chamber (assuming it fits from the start or after fl sizing). But this old brass is just not being resized in this one aspect (shoulder).

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Could be , I think one rifles chamber is much bigger and it's not sizing down far enough...

Yes. The old rifle probably has a looser chamber. The new rifle probably has a tight chamber. Whether it is tighter than SAAMI is unknown, but at least some factory and some reloaded ammo chambers in it. During the resizing attempts, the die body is down all the way to the shell holder. Backing the die out of the press (if that's what you meant) would be going the wrong way. The resized case goes almost all the way into the new rifle's chamber, but the bolt won't close.

 

[Someoldguy]

I'm not comparing the brass to SAAMI specs. I'm comparing it to rounds that successfully chamber in the rifle. Remington Core-Lokt factory ammo successfully chambers in the rifle and gives me a base-to-datum of 1.762". Some handloads from Remington and PMC brass that was fired once in the old rifle have a base-to-datum as high 1.766" and still successfully chamber. Both of these are as measured with the Hornady comparator. The brass and reloads that won't chamber have base-to-datums exceeding 1.767", with most of them being at or above 1.772". These are at least twice fired in the old rifle and presumably fully fire formed to its chamber. The die is successfully resizing the diameters to fit the new rifle, but not setting the shoulder datum back to 1.766".

New brass will presumably fire-form to the new rifle's chamber (assuming it fits from the start or after fl sizing). But this old brass is just not being resized in this one aspect (shoulder).

Allright. Raise the ram of your press. Screw the body of your FLS die down until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram on the press. Screw the FLS die in 1/2 turn further and lock it down with the die body nut. Apply sizing lube and size a case. If it still will not chamber in your rifle then replace your shell holder and repeat the steps above. If a FLS case STILL will not chamber in your rifle, then you need to seek out a mentor to determine if the FLS die, your rifle chamber, or you and your set-up are at fault.

 

[Lone Hunter]

Have you tried Redding Competition Shell Holders? I use them to change my sizing depths.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Allright. Raise the ram of your press. Screw the body of your FLS die down until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram on the press. Screw the FLS die in 1/2 turn further and lock it down with the die body nut. Apply sizing lube and size a case.

Already did all of that. If I put any more pressure on the press, I don't think it would help or be good for the press.

If it still will not chamber in your rifle then replace your shell holder and repeat the steps above.

I haven't done that. It's a new shell holder (#2) and it doesn't look malformed in any aspect. I actually carefully tried a #3 which looks thinner and was tighter and that didn't help.

If a FLS case STILL will not chamber in your rifle, then you need to seek out a mentor to determine if the FLS die, your rifle chamber, or you and your set-up are at fault.

Pretty sure it's just that I need to reserve the old brass for the old rifle that it was fire formed in. I just thought there might be some way to get more bump on the shoulder without resorting to a bump die. Shaving a few thousandths off the shell holder to get more bump seemed plausible. Worst case, I break the shell holder by weakening it.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Have you tried Redding Competition Shell Holders? I use them to change my sizing depths.

I haven't done that. It's a new rifle so the problem just came up.

 

[ireload2]

Ok get a .007 feeler gage and put it under the case head before you size your cases. (Remove the decappimg pin first)
If that works you need to modify your die or buy a brand that is shorter.

This did not work. I held the ram jammed against the die body for 10 seconds four times on four different cases and still the comparator showed the base-to-datum to be .006 too long. The die body's chamber is simply too long. Either the bottom of the die body needs to be reduced or the shell holder needs to be reduced in height or some other solution needs to be employed.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Have you tried Redding Competition Shell Holders? I use them to change my sizing depths.

I just looked at them. They are thicker than normal. That seems like it would be going in the wrong direction. I need to bump the shoulder down, not leave it up.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Ok get a .007 feeler gage and put it under the case head before you size your cases. (Remove the decappimg pin first)
If that works you need to modify your die or buy a brand that is shorter.

Hmmmmmm. That might work. It would take out the slop in the shell holder. I don't think there's enough slop to gain .007". I'll check that tomorrow.

 

[Richard Coody]

all shell holders are not the same dimension. you might try measuring some and find a shorter one. lots of people have found success by sanding down a shell holder on a flat surface. taking 5 or 6 thousands off shouldn't be that difficult

 

[243winxb]

When fl sizing, at the top of the stroke, look to see if shell holder is in full contact with the bottom of the die.

If not, turn die down more and put some muscle into it. The press is springing (Lee?).

What cartridge and rifle?

Standard shell holder have a deck height of .125" +/- .001"

Redding Competition shell holder set will NOT push the shoulder back. Shorter head to datum.