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AGE HARDENING

Webster

The topic of cartridge brass age hardening with time keeps coming up. I am posting this for for second time to try to end the subject. Personal opinion and observation by a few people are not facts.

You posed a question on our web site in regard to C260 cartridge brass age hardening with time.
The properties of copper based alloys (without plating) do not change based on "shelf life".
The surface condition may be impacted by storage conditions; material will tarnish over time.
If the stains become significant enough that could have a negative impact on formability.

Regards,
Joan Brennan
Technical Service & Market Development Engineering Manager
GBC Metals dba Olin Brass
East Alton, IL
Office 618 -258-5689 / Cell 618-301-7810
Joan.Brennan@olinbrass.com
 
Webster said:
..... snip.................
The properties of copper based alloys (without plating) do not change based on "shelf life".
......... snip.............
Click to expand...

Blasphemy!!!
What's next? Claiming that the earth isn't flat.
Are you going to try telling me that mice do NOT spontaneously generate from dust?
And I suppose you'll tell me that my Mom was wrong when she said masturbating (whatever that is) causes blindness.
 
Webster said:
Personal opinion and observation by a few people are not facts.
Click to expand...

Let me see if I understand. If my next door neighbor and I see the guy across the street get shot and killed by his wife, it didn't really happen because it was only an observation and only 2 of us saw it?
Would we be allowed to testify in court about our observation or was what we saw only hearsay evidence and not facts?
 
Mozella said:
Blasphemy!!!
What's next? Claiming that the earth isn't flat.
Are you going to try telling me that mice do NOT spontaneously generate from dust?
And I suppose you'll tell me that my Mom was wrong when she said masturbating (whatever that is) causes blindness.
Click to expand...
hogpatrol said:
I have never experienced brass age hardening. Age softening is another story.:p
Click to expand...

You guys made me spill my coffee! Thanks for the laugh!
 
Webster said:
The topic of cartridge brass age hardening with time keeps coming up. I am posting this for for second time to try to end the subject. Personal opinion and observation by a few people are not facts.

You posed a question on our web site in regard to C260 cartridge brass age hardening with time.
The properties of copper based alloys (without plating) do not change based on "shelf life".
The surface condition may be impacted by storage conditions; material will tarnish over time.
If the stains become significant enough that could have a negative impact on formability.

Regards,
Joan Brennan
Technical Service & Market Development Engineering Manager
GBC Metals dba Olin Brass
East Alton, IL
Office 618 -258-5689 / Cell 618-301-7810
Joan.Brennan@olinbrass.com
Click to expand...
Is she talking about virgin brass cases or loaded ammo?

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/STP/PAGES/STP42574S.htm
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/does-age-effect-brass.3816900/#post-36236014
And Norma begs to differ by stating there IS a shelf life in their COMPONENTS section of their catalog:
https://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Components/Cases/
 
LHSmith said:
Is she talking about virgin brass cases or loaded ammo?

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/STP/PAGES/STP42574S.htm
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/does-age-effect-brass.3816900/#post-36236014
And Norma begs to differ by stating there IS a shelf life in their COMPONENTS section of their catalog:
https://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Components/Cases/
Click to expand...


Good points and a topic that jogs my memory. I remember buying .30 carbine ammo in bandoliers and stripper clips back in the '60s that I think was made in the 40s and 50s, old WW2 and Korean stuff, and packed in 600 round tins. IIRC, we opened them with a key like the old sardine cans. Looking back, I wonder if they were vacuum packed. Shot thousands of those rounds and never had a split neck. Maybe there's something to the brass being exposed to atmospheric pollutants that causes a shelf life. Then again, it may be the company's legal department.
 
KMart said:
Let me see if I understand. If my next door neighbor and I see the guy across the street get shot and killed by his wife, it didn't really happen because it was only an observation and only 2 of us saw it?
Would we be allowed to testify in court about our observation or was what we saw only hearsay evidence and not facts?
Click to expand...

Now you are being silly. The response from my question was answered by a scientist metallurgist from a major copper company and you chose to discard the info because some reloaders experience more effort to seat bullets a week after cases are prepared compared to one day. It has nothing to do with when a case is sized or annealed. It’s a single phase alloy. The hardness cannot change without the grain size getting smaller. Cannot happen at any temp that a case is exposed to. Cartridge brass only gets harder by cold work. Norma has it wrong based on what metallurgist know and my knowledge of metallurgy.

Reminds me of a certain person that got a business degree from Penn State that doesn’t know the difference between weather and climate change. He claims 5000 climate scientist got it wrong and he understand it perfectly because he is smart.
 
You guys have me LOL.
any how copper and tin and what ever else is in brass has been on this earth for millions of years.How much harder is it going to get in
A hundred years?
 

Also this from the March 3 Daily Bulletin from a Sierra Ballistic Tech: "A split neck is a normal occurrence that you must watch for. It is caused by work-hardening of the brass. Brass cases get harder with age and use. Brand new cases that are stored for a period of time can become hard enough that they will split like this case within one to two firings."
 
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LHSmith said:
Did you even read the posted Frankford Arsenal report which claims powder may give off agents that cause brass to become brittle?
Also this from the March 3 Daily Bulletin from a Sierra Ballistic Tech: "A split neck is a normal occurrence that you must watch for. It is caused by work-hardening of the brass. Brass cases get harder with age and use. Brand new cases that are stored for a period of time can become hard enough that they will split like this case within one to two firings."
Click to expand...

Alternate facts!

https://www.copper.org/applications/industrial/DesignGuide/performance/stress03.html

Discussion and Fig. 1 chart show cartridge brass internal stress relaxing with time. Less stress less hardness.
 
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