Accurate Shooter Article: Test of Factory action before and after "trueing"

[BoydAllen]

You do not have to oversized the threads to chase them.

Seriously??? Let me give you an example. A friend trued up the face of his Remington short action using a proper tight fitting mandrel, between centers. In spite of this he continued to have accuracy issues with several barrels. Later a friend turned a close fitting false tenon with shoulder and while it was still in the chuck tightened the action on it by hand. When the face of the action was touching the false tennon's shoulder on one side, there was a gap on the other, and the face of the action was square to its bore. It turned out that the action threads were off center and cocked so much that the threads had to be opened up .025 to get them to clean up. This is the sort of thing that gunsmiths who true actions have to deal with. BTW after the action's threads were recut the accuracy problems went away.

 

[Someoldguy]

It is amazing that anyone ever gets any rifle to shoot... Considering it is so complicated to screw a piece of pipe into a tube.

You do realize that this is a site which deals primarily with precision shooting? There are other forums where rifles assembled via an erector set type of approach are discussed. Perhaps you would find members there more aligned with this type of thinking and/or approach. (?)

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Actually the easier test would be to take a well shooting rifle with good lug contact and file a few thousandths off the back off one lug, then test groups. Its been done. Buy the book, rifle accuracy facts.

 

[butchlambert]

Well, I've done it. I bought a Remington cheapo in 25/06 because of the price only. I don't care for the caliber. It shot 2"-3" groups of 3 shots with factory ammo. I put a 36X scope on it and used windflags. I said this is the chance to see what works. Since I am trigger sensitive I put a crisp Shilen trigger on it. Couldn't tell much difference. Bought a name brand custom stock and bedded it. Groups went to 1.5"-2.5" with the same ammo. Next step was to take a cleanup cut on the face of the receiver, locking lug abutments, and single point the receiver threads. This being a newer CNC receiver it was so close that it took little. I barely touched the nose of the bolt and the back of the locking lugs. If you write all your cuts down you do not need to set the barrel back. I cleaned up the recoil lug on my surface grinder. Yes, I reinstalled the factory barrel as practically nothing was removed from the threads. ABSOLUTELY no change in accuracy. I chambered a barrel from a Wisc. barrel company and best it would do was 1.25"-2.25" with the same factory ammo. It seems that reloads helped marginally, but not enough to crow about.
This is just my experience on a one time deal. Most all factory rifles will kill an animal out of the box. Was it worth it, well somebody got it cheap.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Well, I've done it. I bought a Remington cheapo in 25/06 because of the price only. I don't care for the caliber. It shot 2"-3" groups of 3 shots with factory ammo. I put a 36X scope on it and used windflags. I said this is the chance to see what works. Since I am trigger sensitive I put a crisp Shilen trigger on it. Couldn't tell much difference. Bought a name brand custom stock and bedded it. Groups went to 1.5"-2.5" with the same ammo. Next step was to take a cleanup cut on the face of the receiver, locking lug abutments, and single point the receiver threads. This being a newer CNC receiver it was so close that it took little. I barely touched the nose of the bolt and the back of the locking lugs. If you write all your cuts down you do not need to set the barrel back. I cleaned up the recoil lug on my surface grinder. Yes, I reinstalled the factory barrel as practically nothing was removed from the threads. ABSOLUTELY no change in accuracy. I chambered a barrel from a Wisc. barrel company and best it would do was 1.25"-2.25" with the same factory ammo. It seems that reloads helped marginally, but not enough to crow about.
This is just my experience on a one time deal. Most all factory rifles will kill an animal out of the box. Was it worth it, well somebody got it cheap.

Interesting story. Thank you for posting it. I think that is basically in the spirit of what I posted about.

Apparently, you should have bought a BAT...

 

[butchlambert]

Interesting story. Thank you for posting it. I think that is basically in the spirit of what I posted about.

Apparently, you should have bought a BAT...

Why?

 

[urbanrifleman]

You do realize that this is a site which deals primarily with precision shooting? There are other forums where rifles assembled via an erector set type of approach are discussed. Perhaps you would find members there more aligned with this type of thinking and/or approach. (?)

I really had no idea. Thank you for correcting me... As seems to be obligatory in these discussions. Invariably, someone needs to say something condescending. After all this is the Internet.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Why?

Oh I was simply making a joke per a previous post. Thanks again for the post and telling your story.

 

[butchlambert]

Oh I was simply making a joke per a previous post. Thanks again for the post and telling your story.

I wondered why I would spend funds on a Bat for a hunting rifle. The receiver is not the accuracy problem.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I wondered why I would spend funds on a Bat for a hunting rifle. The receiver is not the accuracy problem.

A previous reply to the thread was "buy a BAT", as all this "trueing" stuff is a waste of time anyway. No need to even discuss it.

The question is moot... hahaha

 

[butchlambert]

A previous reply to the thread was "buy a BAT", as all this "trueing" stuff is a waste of time anyway. No need to even discuss it.

The question is moot... hahaha

Chuckle chuckle HaHaHa,
I do have 2 Bat DS receivers.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

It is amazing that anyone ever gets any rifle to shoot... Considering it is so complicated to screw a piece of pipe into a tube.

I really had no idea. Thank you for correcting me... As seems to be obligatory in these discussions. Invariably, someone needs to say something condescending. After all this is the Internet.

You fire off a statement like that and then have the huevos to call out a members reply as condescending because he did not agree with you? It would be tough for you to get any legitimate answer when it seems you already have it all figured out.

 

[Shynloco]

I am not sure that all "tests" conducted by shooting magazines are "significant" by any stretch of the engineering or statistical imagination. Never really stopped anyone from doing them.

I am kind of surprised no one that does action trueing hasn't already done it and published the results to brag on how much better they shoot after a trueing.

It would be easy to do, just use a Criterion nut barrel. In fact you could use SEVERAL barrels and calibers on the same action. Just to make it interesting.

May I ask, what EXACTLY do you hope to gain by running such a "test"?....... and what would anybody else gain from such a test? Many of us have and shoot the standard untouched (no truing or other miracle changing work) Remington 700 actions and they shoot very well, although if I were going to compete, I'd have the work done. Also, do you believe even with that work, that the Remington 700 action TRUED would shoot or feel like a BAT Action? Don't recall seeing any of the top shooters winning any of the top tier competitions shooting a Remington 700 Action. But I am aware of some winners in local state competitions winning NRA shoot where they used a Remington 700 Action and some didn't even have the extra work other than polishing done and triggers changed.

Alex

 

[Someoldguy]

I really had no idea. Thank you for correcting me... As seems to be obligatory in these discussions. Invariably, someone needs to say something condescending. After all this is the Internet.

My reply was not intended to be condescending. If you truely believe there is nothing more to correctly installing a barrel on an action than there is to 'screwing a piece of pipe into a tube', then based upon my experience with this site, you will find your opinion to be in a significant minority. Ergo, there are other forums where firearms are assembled in a fashion similar to that which you describe where you would likely find members with opinions more aligned with your expressed opinion. If you do NOT hold the opinion you stated, then it is apparently you who were being condescending and disingenuous.

 

[paperpuncher]

You do not have to oversized the threads to chase them.

Respectfully, I would argue that in order to truly put the threads in line with the bore of the action and square to the face and lug abutments single point chasing is necessary. This will result in the tennon being larger in dia.

 

[dminn1]

Other than providing a platform to hang a quality barrel and trigger from, I think the action's main contribution to the accuracy equation is its ability to reliably ignite the cartridge primer. This is, I think, one of the primary advantages of a quality custom action such as Borden, BAT, etc...

 

[urbanrifleman]

My reply was not intended to be condescending. If you truely believe there is nothing more to correctly installing a barrel on an action than there is to 'screwing a piece of pipe into a tube', then based upon my experience with this site, you will find your opinion to be in a significant minority. Ergo, there are other forums where firearms are assembled in a fashion similar to that which you describe where you would likely find members with opinions more aligned with your expressed opinion. If you do NOT hold the opinion you stated, then it is apparently you who were being condescending and disingenuous.

Yah yah. Rude people always feel a need to explain why they are entitled to be rude, and explain their rudeness with legalese and twisted logic. It is as old as the Pharisees.

MERICA

 

[urbanrifleman]

Other than providing a platform to hang a quality barrel and trigger from, I think the action's main contribution to the accuracy equation is its ability to reliably ignite the cartridge primer. This is, I think, one of the primary advantages of a quality custom action such as Borden, BAT, etc...

I was considering one of the new Kelbly's.

Oh, that might be a better test. If a man had the test components to do it. Again you could use a group of Criterion barrels for testing. Take a number Bat actions, Kelblys, Borden's, and a number of factory Remmy actions and install the barrels and test in the same stock. You could use one of those with the aluminum bedding V block. Shoot several barrels and post the data.

Would be interesting to say the least.

 

[okie]

It is amazing that anyone ever gets any rifle to shoot... Considering it is so complicated to screw a piece of pipe into a tube.

thats funny and true!!

 

[people]

You do realize that this is a site which deals primarily with precision shooting? There are other forums where rifles assembled via an erector set type of approach are discussed. Perhaps you would find members there more aligned with this type of thinking and/or approach. (?)

What is your point? It is just that simple. What is complicated or really just technical is the machine work. Once you have quality parts just put them together.