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reloading issue

chuckdds

So I am currently shooting a new Remy .308 SPS and I am having an issue I have not ever had with previous rifles.

I have new IMI Match Brass and have now fire formed some of it. I had no issues FL resizing them when new. Now, I am trying to FL resize them again ( to push back the shoulder a bit). I am using a Redding Type S bushing FL size die. The now once fired cases are so tight in the die that it is almost impossible to size them and they are the verge of being stuck. I am lubing the cases as I always have...
There are no pressure signs after firing and all cases extract easily.

Here are the dimensions before and after firing:

Before: At base- .4535 below shoulder- .4645
After: At base- .4710 below shoulder- .4575

Could it be that I have big chamber? I know it is long, of I was to seat bullets on the lands, they are 2.93" COAL.......

Any help would be appreciated

Chuck
 
chuckdds said:
So I am currently shooting a new Remy .308 SPS and I am having an issue I have not ever had with previous rifles.

I have new IMI Match Brass and have now fire formed some of it. I had no issues FL resizing them when new. Now, I am trying to FL resize them again ( to push back the shoulder a bit). I am using a Redding Type S bushing FL size die. The now once fired cases are so tight in the die that it is almost impossible to size them and they are the verge of being stuck. I am lubing the cases as I always have...
There are no pressure signs after firing and all cases extract easily.

Here are the dimensions before and after firing:

Before: At base- .4535 below shoulder- .4645
After: At base- .4710 below shoulder- .4575

Could it be that I have big chamber? I know it is long, of I was to seat bullets on the lands, they are 2.93" COAL.......

Any help would be appreciated

Chuck
Click to expand...

If a FF case rechambers easy you don't need to push the shoulder back. The difference between the before and after base is 0.0165". That's a mind boggling number? Cannot believe the case expands 0.0165" in the chamber.
 
chuckdds said:
So I am currently shooting a new Remy .308 SPS and I am having an issue I have not ever had with previous rifles.

I have new IMI Match Brass and have now fire formed some of it. I had no issues FL resizing them when new. Now, I am trying to FL resize them again ( to push back the shoulder a bit). I am using a Redding Type S bushing FL size die. The now once fired cases are so tight in the die that it is almost impossible to size them and they are the verge of being stuck. I am lubing the cases as I always have...
There are no pressure signs after firing and all cases extract easily.

Here are the dimensions before and after firing:

Before: At base- .4535 below shoulder- .4645
After: At base- .4710 below shoulder- .4575

Could it be that I have big chamber? I know it is long, of I was to seat bullets on the lands, they are 2.93" COAL.......

Any help would be appreciated

Chuck
Click to expand...

Those seem like big changes in the brass. COL is a separate measurement than one of shoulder bump. Do you have a tool that measures shoulder (approx datum) to case head? Rcbs precision mic; or Hornady makes a tool for calipers. What is the before and after measurement?

Is it possible you're before at base and before at shoulder are reversed?

-Mac
 
the only time Ive had cases hard to size is when the case lube sucked. aka hornady one shot, rcbs, and a few others..

once I switched to imperial sizing die wax ive never had a problem with a case getting even close to stuck in a die... Ive crushed brass in a die to try to stick it and I cant...

but you didnt say what lube your using..
 
I will change my lube- was using Lyman spray lube- (never had issues before)
As for the datum change:

Before:1.6155"
Fired:1.6245"
Measured with Hornady gauge

I re-measured 10 rounds each measured at base and at right below shoulder:
Before:Shoulder - .4525", base- .4660"
After: Shoulder - .4585", Base- .4710"

I look forward to more thoughts on this-
Chuck
 
Size neck in steps maybe. My remy necks fired measures .345 but I need .336 so try to size them in 2 steps and may end up doin 3 steps. Body , .340 then .336. Just a thought I'm still learning.
 
Chuck,
Have you considered either using a regular .308FL Die and seeing if that cures the problem? Otherwise, another option is using a Small Base Die that'll taken your brass back to SAMMI spec regardless of what you rifle is doing to the brass, large chamber or not. You may also consider annealing the brass and seeing if that eases the resizing process in the S Die you are using. Now a Small Die is not cheap. So what you might consider is getting hold of or buying a .308 Lee FL Die or a .308 Lee Collet Die that might also do the trick. I've been through what you are experiencing and ended up buying a Redding Small Base Die and that cured the problem in one pass using RCBS Lube 2 instead of what I usually use, Imperial Sizing Wax. But be liberal with whatever you lube because those pesky pieces of brass can get stuck in your die and then the fun really starts. BTW, I use IMI Brass a good deal in my Son's AR10...good brass that lasts.

Alex
 
And you are full length sizing why?
If you are using this brass in only one barrel, I would neck size and go!
That is if you do not have a stretch problem causing the necks to increase head space.
 
I would get a non bushinf FL sizing die. The bushing dies always leave a portionof the neck unsized.
Neck sozing is not am option

Your chamber is def doing weard things. Unless i am reading it wrong.
 
chuckdds said:
I will change my lube- was using Lyman spray lube- (never had issues before)
As for the datum change:

Before:1.6155"
Fired:1.6245"
Measured with Hornady gauge

I re-measured 10 rounds each measured at base and at right below shoulder:
Before:Shoulder - .4525", base- .4660"
After: Shoulder - .4585", Base- .4710"

I look forward to more thoughts on this-
Chuck
Click to expand...


Perhaps a more pertinent comparison that might explain the resistance to sizing would what are the numbers of the fired cases as compared to them AFTER SIZING .. IE: You say your virgin brass is .452 & .466 at the shoulder and base respectively... Ok fine , then you go on to say that your fired cases come out to .458 & .471 ... No problem there , but what do those fired cases measure out to once sized? Unless I am not understanding, and you are actually saying that after sizing your brass it comes out to .452 & .466?? If that is the case then there is no miracle lube gonna fix your problem...
 
chuckdds said:
I will change my lube- was using Lyman spray lube- (never had issues before)
As for the datum change:

Before:1.6155"
Fired:1.6245"
Measured with Hornady gauge

I re-measured 10 rounds each measured at base and at right below shoulder:
Before:Shoulder - .4525", base- .4660"
After: Shoulder - .4585", Base- .4710"

I look forward to more thoughts on this-
Chuck
Click to expand...

Looks to me like the chamber is cut to near maximum; but your sizing die is near min.

If I'm not mistaken; fired to FL resized is 0.0095" different... That's a LOT! I'm a gas Gunner occasionally, and a 0.004" shoulder bump is all I need.

How do you set up your FL sizing die?

-Mac
 
To answer Mac's question- the pre-fired # is after FL sizing virgin brass. The fired size is obviously after firing. I think that the chamber is just big! It would not surprise me since it is a stock SPS AAC-SD 20" barrel. As I stated earlier, when I check the length of the chamber with a Hornady gauge, a 168g SMK loaded up is 2.93"COAL if it wants to just kiss the lands. This is frustrating since that will not feed in my magazine and it forces me to be back at around 2.8 and jump to the lands...

Is it time to just get a new barrel and make sure it works?
 
To simplify, IMHO-

Full size a few cases. This will resize around the base. Try them in the rifle.

Then, take the same shells and bump the shoulder back using Redding Competition shell holders. i would suggest .002 on the shellholders. THEN, try the shells in the chamber.

Fist or second above should do the trick and you will then know which one it was, base or shoulder.
 
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