Data on Warner Tool Flat Line Bullets

[556Griff]

I’m looking for experience, reviews, load data and real world info you can share about Warner’s Flat Line bullets, specifically the 155.5 Palma bullet.

Thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[556Griff]

I assume the lack of responses means that nobodies been tempted enough to try these bullets.?

 

[Hengehold]

I assume the lack of responses means that nobodies been tempted enough to try these bullets.?

I think serious Intl Palma shooters do not consider using the flatline bullets BC they are not allowed in ICFRA rules.
-T

 

[556Griff]

Thanks for the response. I didn’t know about that rule until recently. I see that the DCRA essentially copied the ICFRA rules so I’d imagine other countries have done the same.

I’ll restate the question then. Does anyone have experience with any of the .308 flat line bullets? That 180 has a serious B.C. (.712) and would essentially turn a Palma rifle (.308 Win) into a 6.5 any rifle.

 

[XTR]

I think serious Intl Palma shooters do not consider using the flatline bullets BC they are not allowed in ICFRA rules.
-T

Yes, Under ICFRA you can't shoot monolithic bullets, so any of the solid copper versions are out of the question. Then one day the anti everything crowd will get into the picture and they will ban lead and we'll all be shooting them.

Try asking over on Snipers Hide, I think there are some guys in the PRS game that may run them, and there are a lot of them that are not regular visitors here.

 

[556Griff]

Oh yes I didn’t think about that. Thanks.

 

[Kurz]

You can also call Alan Warner for some help with reloading information. He has offered that to me each time I buy bullets from him. .

Regards.

 

[556Griff]

Yes thank you that’s a good option. I’ve got a some feedback on load data so I was just trying to get a dialogue going on people’s experiences and results. It brings differences perspectives and test results to the table and hopefully shorten the learning curve.

 

[Kurz]

I’ve got a some feedback on load data so I was just trying to get a dialogue going on people’s experiences and results.

I understood your goals but I thought a conversation with Alan might prove productive. I think he enjoys conversing with knowledgeable people. Here is the link to his starting information:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1658/7757/files/WTC-Throat-Dimensions.pdf

I did some preliminary tests with the 180 grain FL which proved that it was a bullet worth pursuing when I have more time. The small difference I see is trying to use this bullet in a standard Palma rifle which might have too slow of a twist rate to stabilize these longer bullets. The limited case capacity will not add enough velocity to overcome the lack of twist. I used a 1:10" twist barrel and encountered no problems.

The powders I found showing potential other than Alan's suggestion of 4895 were IMR-3031, VVN 540/140, and Norma N-203B. Note that these are slightly more aggressive powders with the exception of VVN-140. I prefer to maximize velocity AND accuracy over those combinations which simply lope along.

The 198 grain FL is a little too much for the .308 case in my opinion but it did perform quite well at slightly slower velocities than the 180 grain. This usually yielded a range of 2650 - 2680 fps. approximately. I switched to the .300 RSAUM for my choice of cartridges which got me the additional velocity I was looking for coupled with excellent accuracy. The larger case required Norma MRP and Ramshot Hunter for best velocity/accuracy combinations. Now I'm working with a modified .300 Norma Mag case with this bullet for additional longer range advantage over the smaller cases.

All testing was done with long actions or single shots due to the exceptional load length.

Regards.

 

[seymour fish]

I understood your goals but I thought a conversation with Alan might prove productive. I think he enjoys conversing with knowledgeable people. Here is the link to his starting information:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1658/7757/files/WTC-Throat-Dimensions.pdf

I did some preliminary tests with the 180 grain FL which proved that it was a bullet worth pursuing when I have more time. The small difference I see is trying to use this bullet in a standard Palma rifle which might have too slow of a twist rate to stabilize these longer bullets. The limited case capacity will not add enough velocity to overcome the lack of twist. I used a 1:10" twist barrel and encountered no problems.

The powders I found showing potential other than Alan's suggestion of 4895 were IMR-3031, VVN 540/140, and Norma N-203B. Note that these are slightly more aggressive powders with the exception of VVN-140. I prefer to maximize velocity AND accuracy over those combinations which simply lope along.

The 198 grain FL is a little too much for the .308 case in my opinion but it did perform quite well at slightly slower velocities than the 180 grain. This usually yielded a range of 2650 - 2680 fps. approximately. I switched to the .300 RSAUM for my choice of cartridges which got me the additional velocity I was looking for coupled with excellent accuracy. The larger case required Norma MRP and Ramshot Hunter for best velocity/accuracy combinations. Now I'm working with a modified .300 Norma Mag case with this bullet for additional longer range advantage over the smaller cases.

All testing was done with long actions or single shots due to the exceptional load length.

Regards.

Worthwhile topic. Pertinent questions: do they follow the usual dictum of seating depth at least .050 Off the lands cf Barnes, do they require a bit faster powder that usual to achieve obturation, can they run at similar speeds to the usual, do they copper the bbl less due to tweaks in metallurgy compared to say a Barnes, do the bc’s run true as advertised, what long range accuracy is documented, do they adversely affect bbl life, etc

 

[556Griff]

Kurz, thank you for sharing your load data. It’s good to know you’re getting good results from a 1:10” because that’s the barrel twist rate I’ll be going with. Dan suggested even going faster like a 1:9” but that the barrel would then be more specialized for the monolithics. I wanted to use something that would still work well with traditional 155s since I shoot team matches and competitions that won’t allow monolithics. Dan also said a Palma 95 chamber will work well with the WT 155 flat line. That’s also great because now I have a chamber that will work well with traditional 155s like the 155 SMK.

I am curious about the barrel life using the solids and if they’ll cause more or less fouling.

CFE223 looks like a great powder but I haven’t seen anyone post results with that powder. Sounds like H4895 is the go to powder for the 155

 

[Kurz]

Dan also said a Palma 95 chamber will work well with the WT 155 flat line. That’s also great because now I have a chamber that will work well with traditional 155s like the 155 SMK.

I am curious about the barrel life using the solids and if they’ll cause more or less fouling.

CFE223 looks like a great powder but I haven’t seen anyone post results with that powder. Sounds like H4895 is the go to powder for the 155

I skipped over the 155.5's in my reply. CFE223 and AR-Comp are both good powders for the lighter bullet with CFE223 taking the higher velocity of those two. I actually prefer a slightly slower powder here in the form of 8208 XBR. I shot a lot of light bullets over this powder finding excellent accuracy albeit at slightly lesser velocities.

I'm using Bartlein barrels almost exclusively for my competition rifles and don't find any appreciable increase in copper fouling. I haven't retired a barrel yet from shooting monometallics so I can't speak to the wear factor.

I am using the Palma 95 chamber as well for the light bullets in a 1:10" twist rate.

 

[556Griff]

Yeah my buddy turned me onto 8208 and I really like it. Shoots the 155 SMK very well and I’m not compressing loads like I do with Varget. I was planning on trying 8208 with the Warner along with AR Comp. I bet N135 would work well too. Wouldn’t be the best velocity powder though.

 

[Kurz]

I bet N135 would work well too. Wouldn’t be the best velocity powder though.

The VVN-135 I shot was just too slow to get a comfortable amount into the case. I found VVN-530/130 to be a better burn rate along with N-201 and Ramshot TAC. But lot numbers may tell a different story. When I want the top velocity, I run CFE223. When I want consistency and accuracy I run 8208 XBR with the light bullets. I did get some slower velocities out of VVN133 but the accuracy was pretty good. It needs a little more powder than the VVN-530/130 though.

 

[Longtrain]

At a 1K match, the winner, (1st time at 1K) was shooting the 198 grain 30 caliber bullets in F-TR. Low X count, but majority of the shots all held the 10 ring, when wind conditions pushed most into the 9 and even 8 ring. Good wind reader or good BC won the match? A win is a win, but I'd guess the BC helped.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I realize the monolithic bullets are prohibited for some competitions but wow the performance looks awesome. I am just target / steel shooting but no competition at this time, so I am considering using some of the Flat Line 255.5gr in .338 caliber which will push my max effective range out several 100 yds. Any experience with these? Especially if you used Doppler and tried to true your BCs. In addition to high BC, they also claim faster velocity vs. comparable weight other projectiles. Any data?

 

[Kurz]

I am considering using some of the Flat Line 255.5gr in .338 caliber which will push my max effective range out several 100 yds. Any experience with these?

I haven't worried about 'claims' for a couple of decades. It's a waste of time worrying when a some short testing sessions will reveal the truth. Given the advent of the internet, many manufacturers limit their stretching of data due to the fact that they can be called out to a potentially huge audience.

The first thing I will point out is the OAL of the cartridge when you start to plan your rifle. Using the venerable .338 Lapua as an example, you will be over 4.0" when loaded to the suggested seating depth. This can indicate a need for single shooting instead of magazine feeding. Expense of testing powder/bullet combinations will be high unless you get lucky right off the bat or you are blessed with a greater funding potential...

I have not experienced an increase in coppering in the Bartlein barrels I've been using and I don't expect any increase after break in. Initially, I thought about buying into the Lapua mystique or as I prefer 'A certain something, je ne sais quoi (intangible quality that makes something distinctive)'. But I backed away, deciding instead to pursue other venues and cartridges. Now, as it turns out, I find no need for this cartridge at all since it has been bypassed, for my pursuits, by other cartridges better suited to the chosen tasks. In particular, the .338 Norma Mag. for general long range shooting beyond 1,000 yards, the .338-378 Weatherby for extended long range shooting and a yet to be named variant for the 2 mile and beyond category which is still in development.

I haven't found a downside to using the .338 Flat Line bullets, in fact I enjoy shooting them at the extended ranges I have available where I shoot. Once my loads were established my only real concern was the wind which could be a little twitchy on occasion. Norma MRP2, VVN-570, IMR-7828, Re-26, 23 and H-1000 make up the base powders which work well with this combination. Note that the barrels I use are in the 30" -33" range. Weigh is of no concern whatsoever as long as I can carry it from the truck to the pad.

I still have the 6.5mm and the .375 Flat line bullets on my agenda if I can ever get a little more free time to experiment.

Regards.