nilebartram
Silver $$ Contributor
Doc- keep up the good work, that way I do not have to do it. Now shoot it, post your results. nilebartram
Playing With Center-X
- Thread starter USMCDOC
- Start date
The one on the right is a SK Standard Plus round.. the one on the left is a Center-X round
You got it man.. i am loving in doing this.. it gives me something to do too!
I'll throw this out there , not to drive you crazy , but . Have you tried removing the factory lube and dipping in Lee alox bullet lube .
Once I used the Lee alox , I didn't have fliers when changing bullet makes or lots . Yes it's a lot of work but I was testing a long held belief that the lube was the problem and it takes a few groups to settle down .
It seems too be true .
Once I used the Lee alox , I didn't have fliers when changing bullet makes or lots . Yes it's a lot of work but I was testing a long held belief that the lube was the problem and it takes a few groups to settle down .
It seems too be true .
Both bullets are basically the same from what i can tell.. at the first band both the SK SP and Center-X bullets measured .2240 to .2245 and at the driving band at the case mouth were .2250 to .2255.. so there is a slight taper in the driving band on the bullet as i can surmise from the sample that i checked..
Is the case crimp tapered more on the right case ?
Actually the SK the first one was .2245 and then .2255 but another one was .2240 and .2250 same with the Center-X.. so they display the same thing from both..
No.. i have not.. but that is an idea worth trying.. we have indoor to outdoor shooting every thurs.. so when i get some set up to do that.. i will try that for sure, i would love to see how that works out!
No.. it is more like a "step" crimp.. it has a shoulder to it and then the gripping part of the case mouth that is holding the bullet is flat, not tapered. Whereas the Center-X round the bullet is completely down to that shoulder, so there is deff a difference in the way the bullet is seated it appears.. this may well be one of the points that determines why one shoots better than the other..
Doc,
Very interesting test. Looking forward to some test targets with some tiny groups. Let the shooting begin.
Paul
Very interesting test. Looking forward to some test targets with some tiny groups. Let the shooting begin.
Paul
Paul, as soon as the wind settles down enough where i can.. or if i get a slot in the practice session on thurs.. otherwise it looks like Friday is the earliest right now.. unless things change..Doc,
Very interesting test. Looking forward to some test targets with some tiny groups. Let the shooting begin.
Paul
Well, Looking closely at you post measurment images, it appears the slugs are unaltered. If otherwise, my apologies.
As to your insert, there are exactly two ways to do that, the right way and the wrong way, either one subject to properly indicating on the slug, which if it contains all lube, exactly what got learned?
I will impart something you may or may not ever deduce with your new found hobby.
All of your measuring of OAL.....you ever think seriously about it's most important consideration?
Some chambers prefer short ammo, some long, mostly relative to how long you can go before that carbon ring builds and starts to rob optimal accuracy.
I suspect it relates to initial ignition pressure and relative bore sealing.....wish I knew but there is a difference.
Tip....spend less time micro managing box varience and look at lot varience re what your chamber prefers. Of course this is a lot easier if your not trying to test everything which is precisely why I brought that up in the past.
Far be it from me to assume the role of mentor but you might want to think about two approaches....broad testing that yields a lot of sub par data or optimal testing yielding useful and importantly, practical information.
The 10X-III has an EPS Eley chamber in it.. but it loves Center-X.. Standard Plus and CCI SV, the 10/22 has a Bentz chamber in it.. It loves Center-X, Standard Plus and CCI SV.. Both in that order..
Right now.. what i am after is to see if you can group say a .039 rim thickness case that has a say .770 measurement with ammo that say has a .038 rim thickness with say a .772 base to driving band length.. this is the course i am traveling on.. but i feel that the other parameters must be address as you build that "yellow" brick road.. which could quickly become stained with a lot of brown stuff.. Not sure.. in the same time.. i just enjoy it.. and whether something comes of it, well that depends if it works and if my shooting ability stands up to the test as well..
Ok.. did some separating of the SK Standard Plus. This is all the same rim thickness of .0385. I will be testing this afternoon. I am looking forward to both the positive and negative results that i might find from this.. conditions may not present themselves to be optimum for the test, but it will be better than trying to shoot outdoors..
I will prob have to lump some of it together where there are small samples of the same measurement, but will be placed in the box in measured order and shot in that order as well.
I will prob have to lump some of it together where there are small samples of the same measurement, but will be placed in the box in measured order and shot in that order as well.
New to this game but I sure enjoy the science of it. I'm afraid that if in all your study you find just the right combination and in the future can't purchase it . It may get into your head at the bench some day. But I really don't know what I'm talking about .
Not knowing is the beginning of knowledge.. so don't be afraid to step out and try!
Yeah..i think that you're about there!
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Hi Doc,
I'm playing catch-up and now understand what you meant in your PM regarding this project. I can certainly appreciate all the effort you (and some others) have gone through in your search for the better and more consistent load. And having been through much of the same myself in the past (except for taking rimfire cartridges apart), the one BIG challenge I see approaching is that none of the ammo, (regardless of measurement or pile) has been shot in your rifle. And from experience in actually testing/shooting Federal Ultra Match (UM22), Lapua Center X, Eley Red & Black, some SKS and Lapua Midas Plus, both in a customized Ruger 10/22 having a Volquartzen barrel (even different barrel on the same receiver) and then the same ammo run through my (former) Anschutz 64 (without the Harrel Tuner on it that was later added for fine tuning) was that the groups varied much more (group size) with the 10/22 than they did when shooting the same ammos (came from the same box of 50) and groups separated by rim thickness in my Anschutz Bolt Gun. SO I guess my point is, in my humble experiences, not only did the ammos (when separated) themselves make a difference, but so did the rifle these separated ammos were shot in. But the experience, at least, was a ton of fun that I spent an entire summer experimenting and learning just how important testing different ammos in a specific rifle makes.
And someone mentioned the "expense" of going through such a project may not be worth the effort. I humbly cannot agree with that assessment because if cost and money were of primary concern, then I believe that person should not even be engaged in testing or shooting to begin with. This isn't a sport for penny pinching. Maybe that's easy for me to say, but since I don't drink, smoke or "hang out" all that much (except my Benchrest Shooting and reloading buddies - most at the range shooting), then the biggest expense I had was buying a LARGE quantity of the same lot of Rimfire Ammo so I could maintain the same accuracy for a long time without having to re-test because even the same ammo in a different lot, introduces yet another variable in Rimfire shooting that we all seek to reduce and eliminate.
But Doc, great job and have fun. Now lets see the fruits of your efforts on paper and Good Luck my friend!
Alex
P.S. As an aside and you may already know this, lubes on ammos are different. Therefore gotta clean the barrel after shooting a specific brand of bullet and before testing another specific brand of bullet.
I'm playing catch-up and now understand what you meant in your PM regarding this project. I can certainly appreciate all the effort you (and some others) have gone through in your search for the better and more consistent load. And having been through much of the same myself in the past (except for taking rimfire cartridges apart), the one BIG challenge I see approaching is that none of the ammo, (regardless of measurement or pile) has been shot in your rifle. And from experience in actually testing/shooting Federal Ultra Match (UM22), Lapua Center X, Eley Red & Black, some SKS and Lapua Midas Plus, both in a customized Ruger 10/22 having a Volquartzen barrel (even different barrel on the same receiver) and then the same ammo run through my (former) Anschutz 64 (without the Harrel Tuner on it that was later added for fine tuning) was that the groups varied much more (group size) with the 10/22 than they did when shooting the same ammos (came from the same box of 50) and groups separated by rim thickness in my Anschutz Bolt Gun. SO I guess my point is, in my humble experiences, not only did the ammos (when separated) themselves make a difference, but so did the rifle these separated ammos were shot in. But the experience, at least, was a ton of fun that I spent an entire summer experimenting and learning just how important testing different ammos in a specific rifle makes.
And someone mentioned the "expense" of going through such a project may not be worth the effort. I humbly cannot agree with that assessment because if cost and money were of primary concern, then I believe that person should not even be engaged in testing or shooting to begin with. This isn't a sport for penny pinching. Maybe that's easy for me to say, but since I don't drink, smoke or "hang out" all that much (except my Benchrest Shooting and reloading buddies - most at the range shooting), then the biggest expense I had was buying a LARGE quantity of the same lot of Rimfire Ammo so I could maintain the same accuracy for a long time without having to re-test because even the same ammo in a different lot, introduces yet another variable in Rimfire shooting that we all seek to reduce and eliminate.
But Doc, great job and have fun. Now lets see the fruits of your efforts on paper and Good Luck my friend!
Alex
P.S. As an aside and you may already know this, lubes on ammos are different. Therefore gotta clean the barrel after shooting a specific brand of bullet and before testing another specific brand of bullet.
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