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1/8 Dot at 1,000 Yards at 60X?

Killick

Transcendental Capitalist
How large does the 1/8 Dot appear at 60X with a March HM 10-60 at 1,000 yards? Does it cover the X ring?
 
Killick said:
How large does the 1/8 Dot appear at 60X with a March HM 10-60 at 1,000 yards? Does it cover the X ring?
Click to expand...

Seriously? This is pretty simple math.

5" X-ring = ~½ MOA
1/8MOA dot ~ ¼ of the X-Ring at the power that the reticle subtends.

Now if that is at 60x and you back it off to 40x then you are 1/3 bigger, or 50% bigger at 30X. This was the problem with the DDR reticle in the original 2013 NF Comp scopes. At 55X they were great but if the mirage is cookin' and you have to back them off the dot is too big.
 
The math is simple if you set the equation up correctly. Not sure if I did that correctly, but wouldn't a 1/8 dot at 100 yards be 1/4 at 200 yards, 1/2 at 400 yards, 1 inch at 800 yards and 1 1/4 inch at 1000 yards? (At the power the reticle subtends of course.)

I'm actually good at math but calculating dot sizes and cross hair thickness at different powers and distance drive me crazy.

I've looked though a 3/32nd size reticle dot scope and liked it...are the 1/16th dots so small they are hard to see?
 
So what is the preferred dot size for a 60x for F-Class? My experience at 1,000 is with 50x scopes with either hash or mil, both have cross hair at the center.
 
If you are getting up there a 1/8 min. dot is better also it is faster. 1/8" dot at 1000 would be an inch, I would like bigger if I could get it. 1/4 min. would be better, faster and it would center in the box perfect and It may be bigger than some of my floaters......... Remember in bad conditions it would be easier see. The small ones of 1/16 and 3/32 are short range stuff....... Jim
 
Denys is right of course. I was referring to ¼ of the width, that's usually what we shooters are concerned with when we hold on a target. It's like when people say the 10 ring on an F class target is ½ the size of the HP target, it's actually ¼ the size in surface area (that square in there) but folks don't think of it that way.

@johara1, The original 15-55 NF DDR reticle had a .125 dot that subtended at 55x. This reticle was replacing the class favorite NP-2DD reticle with a .095moa center dot from the 12-42NXS and BR models. Most F class shooters found that they could not run the new scope at 55x often, and dialing back to something more like 35x to 40x. At that magnification the 2nd focal plane dot subtended a bigger profile than people liked (calculates to running closer to 0.17 to .2moa)

In 2014 when NF updated the scope they discontinued the DDR and replaced it with the DDR-2 reticle, this one subtends .095moa at 40x(or .07 at 55x), and the F class world was happy again.

If you are shooting sling bigger can be better. I've got problems loosing the dot in my Vortex on my Service Rifle, but in F class I can't say I've ever heard someone complain that the reticle subtension was too small, but in any case it comes down to what you like. Reticles may be the most subjective thing in shooting.
 
Killick said:
So what is the preferred dot size for a 60x for F-Class? My experience at 1,000 is with 50x scopes with either hash or mil, both have cross hair at the center.
Click to expand...
Well, here's the deal. I cannot find at the Deon website, at what magnification the dot appears as 1/8MOA.

In my March-X 5-50X56, I have the MTR-2 reticle and its center dot is 0.25MOA (1/4MOA) but at 10X. These are SFP scopes because FFP reticles would be useless at the zoom ratios and magnifications used. The MTR-2 and 4 reticles are listed at 10X, the MTR-1 and 3 are at 20X, as is the MTR-FT.

At any rate, at 40X, the 1/4 MOA dot is now 1/16MOA and I can tell you that finding that on the target is quite difficult for me at times. Thankfully the MTR-2 reticle helps draw your attention to the middle of the reticle and I also use illumination to help out finding the dot and the hashmarks help in keeping a hold.

I see the March-X 10-60X56 comes in 3 models. The first one is limited to three reticles that have combinations of crosshairs and dots, and that's the one under discussion here; with unscaled reticles. The second model is the one with the more sophisticated reticles, of with the MTR-2 is my preferred. The third model uses the same reticles as the second module but adds illumination. That would be equivalent to the March-X 5-50X56 that I have. At this moment, I'm considering getting the second illumination module with the 6 settings. It's a replaceable module.

If you're asking, I would suggest that you consider the second (TM) or third (TI) model with the MTR-2 reticle rather than the crosshair-dot ones. These reticles allow for and indeed, enable you to surgically place your shots on the F-Class target at 1000 yards. They are not busy reticles like some of the Christmas tree-lookalike I have seen, but they have enough hashmarks and lines to really help you in your quest for the X. If you're older and you shoot in early mornings in the fall/winter, the illumination may be of help.
 
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XTR said:
Denys is right of course. I was referring to ¼ of the width, that's usually what we shooters are concerned with when we hold on a target. It's like when people say the 10 ring on an F class target is ½ the size of the HP target, it's actually ¼ the size in surface area (that square in there) but folks don't think of it that way.
Click to expand...

When we start shooting at one dimension targets, I will start thinking about linear dimension only. Until then, I think surface area. My waterline is not as perfect as yours, obviously.:)

I know, I am not "most people." I get that a lot!;)
 
I don't hold hold off, never did..... I click. Hard to break old habits. If I feel the need to hold, the edge of a 1/4 min. dot is as good as the edge of a 3/32......... but easier to see...... Jim
 
XTR said:
Rather than justifying it I was acknowledging my mistake, and the flawed logic that got me there.
Click to expand...
Crap, if I can't start an argument with you, why are we even discussing this?

:D

Also, I was not kidding when talking about your waterline compared to mine. I've seen you shoot and I recognize when I'm outclassed.
 
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johara1 said:
I don't hold hold off, never did..... I click. Hard to break old habits. If I feel the need to hold, the edge of a 1/4 min. dot is as good as the edge of a 3/32......... but easier to see...... Jim
Click to expand...
When I started in F-class in 2006, I was dialing all the time. Yep, old habits are hard to break, coming from High Power and Service Rifle. Took me a while to realize that for F-class, dialing for every shot was not the way to go. The MTR-2 reticle is useful, once I start holding off past the 8-ring. It helps me to hold consistently from the nearest ring.
 
XTR said:
Seriously? This is pretty simple math.

5" X-ring = ~½ MOA
1/8MOA dot ~ ¼ of the X-Ring at the power that the reticle subtends.

Now if that is at 60x and you back it off to 40x then you are 1/3 bigger, or 50% bigger at 30X. This was the problem with the DDR reticle in the original 2013 NF Comp scopes. At 55X they were great but if the mirage is cookin' and you have to back them off the dot is too big.
Click to expand...
So since the scope is SFP it should subtend 1/4 of the X ring at all powers. That seems too big to me, Sniper338 is right, 3/32 seems the way to go.
 
I have the March X 8-80 MTR 3 that has no dot but the cross hair is 1/8 thick as per the reticle specs. I don't know at what magnification and am not quite sure where to find out. My getting older eyes like the cross hair better than the dot.

Regards
Rick
 
Here's the reply from Marchscopes Deon:
"Thank you for your inquiry.
The dot size is at the magnification of 40X.
That means 1/8 dot covers 0.25 inch length at 100 yard and 1.25 inch at 1000 yard.
And 3/32 dot covers 0.094 inch at 100 yard and 0.94 inch at 1000 yard."
 
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