Excessive pressure?

[joshb]

Exactly, thats why its so infuriating.

And Ive only been here a few months...

This is the main reason I tried to get some "clarity" with my post. I'm not the smartest guy on this forum. I'm really just getting started with understanding all the processes needed to produce good ammunition. When people post convoluted and confusing theories with out a clear explanation of what they're saying, it confuses me and probably confuses most newbies. There should be a consensus on certain "accepted"processes.

 

[ShootDots]

We, as in shooters / reloaders, have an esoteric language that should be clearly understood. Several months ago a discussion ensued about "measuring neck tension". EVERYBODY, in OUR esoteric world, understands that we mean which bushing are you going to use to squeeze down the neck, i.e. 1 thousandths or two thousandths etc...etc.. The "discussion" that consumed that thread was or became a mess due to certain people "muddying up the waters" in some failed attempt to "correct" what we all understand. By the same token, everyone knows that when we say we are "bumping" the shoulder back 2 thousandths, we mean we are sizing the brass down so that a shoulder bump gauge shows the case, at the shoulder, to be 2 thousandths smaller / shorter than before sizing. If we have to get into another long and convoluted argument over the semantics we are using to describe what everyone already knows, then we are doing a GREAT disservice to the newbies on here trying to learn. There needs to be some way to filter this sort of "discussion" so that those that want to muddy the waters can't!

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

There needs to be some way to filter this sort of "discussion" so that those that want to muddy the waters can't!

There is a way. Put fguffey on ignore. Here's how:

 

[ShootDots]

There is a way. Put fguffey on ignore. Here's how:

View attachment 1021095

BUT how would a newbie know of him or of the nonsense he spews? That is the REAL problem..

 

[Brians356]

Im cert

And this, gentlemen, is why he doesnt understand what we say when we do the exact same thing. He doesnt understand relative vs absolute and how langue can be connotative vs denotative and that is the crux of his issue. Relaying his thoughts in simple english.

We know that the exact shoulder with the same exact atoms of metal doesnt magically shift and displace more material below it (absolute), but the angular part of the case does get bumped closer to the case head (relative). I dont care if its all entirely new material thats flowed into the new shoulder. The angled section still moves from its first position and thats what we refer to as bumping.

We all describe the same phenomena, guffey just doesnt comprehend modern language like we do.

I'm nearly certain "fguffey" is an alias of Professor Irwin Corey.
-

 

[Brians356]

There is a way. Put fguffey on ignore.

I did that, thanks and a hat tip. But now it's kind of eerie. He's gone, but I read what others reply to him, as to a ghost. Yeesh!
-

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

BUT how would a newbie know of him or of the nonsense he spews? That is the REAL problem..

By calculating the likes:messages ratio (higher is better). For example:

ShootDots: 1388:3869 (0.36)
Alex Wheeler: 3565:4550 (0.78)
dmoran: 2584:2609 (0.99)
Toby Bradshaw: 487:771 (0.63)

fguffey: 79:1663 (0.05)

Separating $hit from shinola is a skill that is essential in the internet era.

 

[223Randy]

Well - might as well make the ignore list i guess. fguffy makes more sense of the actual process than "bumping the shoulder back"

 

[KMart]

Im cert

I'm nearly certain "fguffey" is an alias of Professor Irwin Corey.
-

No Brian, Guffey is his own being. However, every time he posts here, the image of the good professor pops into my head.
Professor Irwin Corey passed away in February of this year. I think he was 102 yo.

 

[fguffey]

BUT how would a newbie know of him or of the nonsense he spews? That is the REAL problem..

Shootsdots, I have ask how does a reloader measure tension; I have tension gages, all of my tension gages are calibrated to read in pounds and there is no conversion meaning 10 tensions does not equal 45 pounds. I mention interference fit and or crush fit; there is no conversion for interference fit and or crush fit. I have cut holes for bushings/sleeves that took tons of pressure to fit. I have measure tension on cables in tons but I have never found a tension gage that measured tensions.

I did not say 'tensions' is not cute, reloaders have a lot of cute saying. Tension is one of the cutest, before the Internet reloaders used bullet hold, back then a reloader could measure bullet hold in pounds, they could measure the amount of effort to seat the bullet and they could measure the amount of effort to pull the bullet.

And now? There is a press that measures the effort required to seat a bullet, to me it came as no surprise the gage on the press does not measure tensions, it measures pounds.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

This is the main reason I tried to get some "clarity" with my post. I'm not the smartest guy on this forum. I'm really just getting started with understanding all the processes needed to produce good ammunition

I agree and I understand: I have found very few reloaders that understand want happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel. Rare: How rare? I could say as rare as whale poo-poo but someone showed up at an antique store trying to sell some so I can not say they are as rare as whale poo-poo.

F. Guffey

 

[Mark204]

I'm not sure where the term "cute" falls in reloading................but I do know where the term "giggle" does. I "giggle" every time I read a thread on bumping a shoulder back.

Mark

 

[joshb]

I agree and I understand: I have found very few reloaders that understand want happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel. Rare: How rare? I could say as rare as whale poo-poo but someone showed up at an antique store trying to sell some so I can not say they are as rare as whale poo-poo.

F. Guffey

I really do try to keep an open mind on a man's opinion. The problem, Mr Guffey, is that all I have ever read in your many posts is how "nobody else understands". Like your last post to Shootdots, you snipe, but offer nothing constructive. Your post to me includes no information, just a reference to whale poo and that I don't understand. Thanks for nothing.

 

[ShootDots]

Quite some time ago I wrote a very nice, very diplomatic PM to Mr. Guffey. I asked him very politely to please re-read and rethink what he is putting down for a "reply", as many, if not most, of his posts put him in a "less than desirable" light. I got no response at all. Fine. He continues to "fill the air waves" with posts that make little or no sense. All this can do is serve to confuse someone who may just be starting out reloading. I think it does a GREAT disservice to the newbie. Personally, I read his posts and literally shake my head in wonderment. But this is not my first rodeo>>>BUT what if it was??!!

 

[M-61]

Quite some time ago I wrote a very nice, very diplomatic PM to Mr. Guffey. I asked him very politely to please re-read and rethink what he is putting down for a "reply", as many, if not most, of his posts put him in a "less than desirable" light. I got no response at all. Fine. He continues to "fill the air waves" with posts that make little or no sense. All this can do is serve to confuse someone who may just be starting out reloading. I think it does a GREAT disservice to the newbie. Personally, I read his posts and literally shake my head in wonderment. But this is not my first rodeo>>>BUT what if it was??!!

That is the harm. Usually writing is a form of communication. He has taken writing to a cryptological level. I've been reloading since 1963. Still learning, but I could not imagine being new, reading one of guffeys responses, and wondering what question was answered. The saving part of this he usually includes a statement that HE is the only that can do something or understand how something works. For me that's the disclaimer right there. If HE is the only one then there is no sense in reading further. Tensions, killer firing pins, unmovable shoulders....it goes on and on. It absolutely does a "GREAT disservice", Ben, and no one at all is helped.

 

[Shynloco]

I am seeing both sides of the coin (for some there may only be one side of a coin) which brings to mind the old saying, "Silence is golden." And I do agree with not wanting to lead a "newbie" astray and helping others to learn. And though this sport is somewhat technically oriented it is not a " walk on the wild side" or an edition of "Space Exploration in La La Land." So perhaps certain instances (or need to respond to foolishness) requires more restraint than others. Other sayings also exist that suggest "talking to a wall" simply means your perfectly logical response falls on deaf ears. So perhaps my initially indicated sayings fit the best bill in this instance.

Alex

 

[jds holler]

I come to this and other forums for knowledge, social interaction, and entertainment. I am loath to put anyone on "ignore", because I believe that there is no one on the planet who can't teach me something; even if it is simply patience.

I've gotta admit that with some folks, I'm still waiting for that "aha" moment. Not mentioning any names. jd

 

[joshb]

I'm not sure where the term "cute" falls in reloading................but I do know where the term "giggle" does. I "giggle" every time I read a thread on bumping a shoulder back.

Mark

On a lighter thought, I'll mention the first time "cute" popped in my mind. My first 6ppc. Got the gun cause everybody said they shoot. I'd been shooting a lot of 308's and 300 Win Mag. I opened the box of brass. They're "cute" little cartridges. I started shooting them. I now consider them bad a$$ little demons.

 

[Jody Simcox]

Whew!! Y'all are exhausting, but I do enjoy the forum! And thanks Boyd Allen for the PM... my thread kind of got commandeered!

 

[ireload2]

Anyone that has been in an engineering lab has seen an Istron machine. They are specifically designed to run tensile and compression tests on materials. I know you cannot stand to admit it but there are tens of thousands of technicians and engineers that run these machines every day. They know the language and terminology and understand the mechanics. Apparently you do not have the slightest grasp of it. Being ignorant is not cute.

Shootsdots, I have ask how does a reloader measure tension; I have tension gages, all of my tension gages are calibrated to read in pounds and there is no conversion meaning 10 tensions does not equal 45 pounds. I mention interference fit and or crush fit; there is no conversion for interference fit and or crush fit. I have cut holes for bushings/sleeves that took tons of pressure to fit. I have measure tension on cables in tons but I have never found a tension gage that measured tensions.

I did not say 'tensions' is not cute, reloaders have a lot of cute saying. Tension is one of the cutest, before the Internet reloaders used bullet hold, back then a reloader could measure bullet hold in pounds, they could measure the amount of effort to seat the bullet and they could measure the amount of effort to pull the bullet.

And now? There is a press that measures the effort required to seat a bullet, to me it came as no surprise the gage on the press does not measure tensions, it measures pounds.

F. Guffey