One more tip.
- Thread starter jamesdmock
- Start date
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
And where do you rank here?
http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/shooter_rankings/PrecRifLD.php
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm quite comfortable doing what works for me, and can back it up, no matter how you try to spin it.
Which of the two do you think it may be Jim?
Those who prefer no turn necks must live with it. I check things, first. the fired case, if it is good go to the next step. Size one and see if it has run out, if not seat a bullet and check it. You will find it there it is your seater. You should be able to turn necks to less than a .0001 these are the only places it can happen but more than likely it is your sizing die set up . ....... Jim
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
I spin and check everyone and try to get all as close to zero runout as possible.
You deserve a For The Win on that one.
Question from the gallery here: Can someone please point to an article or publication on bullet straightening that uses a more or less a scientific approach to answer this riddle? For instance, double blind testing and quantifying runout vs accuracy as shot from a solidly mounted test bed in an indoor range?
This well received and much quoted article http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/...-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/ is a great example of what a few dedicated shooters were able to accomplish with regard to extreme accuracy in an indoor environment. Interestingly, nowhere does it mention bullet runout or truing loaded ammo.
As a novice, I am reading conflicting input here from very experienced shooters, some of whom say straighten, others say don't. Yet my years of experience in competition (not shooting sports) tells me that time spent doing things that raises confidence in ones self before the green flag drops, is likely to result in further advancement towards the winners circle.
Is bullet straightening strictly an exercise in confidence building?
This well received and much quoted article http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/...-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/ is a great example of what a few dedicated shooters were able to accomplish with regard to extreme accuracy in an indoor environment. Interestingly, nowhere does it mention bullet runout or truing loaded ammo.
As a novice, I am reading conflicting input here from very experienced shooters, some of whom say straighten, others say don't. Yet my years of experience in competition (not shooting sports) tells me that time spent doing things that raises confidence in ones self before the green flag drops, is likely to result in further advancement towards the winners circle.
Is bullet straightening strictly an exercise in confidence building?
Perhaps you could opine that for one or two wins but he has shown a lot of winning wood to prove his point. He is a seasoned competitor that has been doing this a long time and this is just his particular approach to the problem.
His method is not contrary to established procedure. I appreciate James for sharing.
Joe
His method is not contrary to established procedure. I appreciate James for sharing.
Joe
Plenty of folks would attest to shooting well with moderate runout. That does not mean we all would, as there are qualifiers behind this that are rarely mentioned, or even considered.
You might also notice those having some success in shooting naturally crediting pretty much anything they happen to do to that result.
Then you have those who credit their extra efforts/expenses, merely because they would feel foolish otherwise.
Someone buys an expensive scope, it's going to be a great scope, even if it isn't.. Same with reloading toys.
There are a few here, who try things with logical minds, and dismiss what does not work. Hopefully they learn.
That's relatively few.
Where there is an appeal to authority; so & so does it, or 'I do it', -as sole basis,, we've left reasoning and often the rational..
You can generally see Boyd's posts as just opposite of this condition. Good attitude as well.
You might also notice those having some success in shooting naturally crediting pretty much anything they happen to do to that result.
Then you have those who credit their extra efforts/expenses, merely because they would feel foolish otherwise.
Someone buys an expensive scope, it's going to be a great scope, even if it isn't.. Same with reloading toys.
There are a few here, who try things with logical minds, and dismiss what does not work. Hopefully they learn.
That's relatively few.
Where there is an appeal to authority; so & so does it, or 'I do it', -as sole basis,, we've left reasoning and often the rational..
You can generally see Boyd's posts as just opposite of this condition. Good attitude as well.
Just opinion, but I'm sure standard hierarchy here has been:
1. Make a good product to begin with
2. Determine & fix what screws up #1
3. Work around the problems
4. Believe hard enough that work-arounds actually work
5. Seek validation to defend #4
On number 1
Straight ammo is also concentric, and it's more than just bullets pointed where you will them.
Straight ammo chambers without tension(anywhere), and can be made with a basic plan and efforts to do so.
Number 1 is fairly well 'established'.
There are quite a few who commented on the subject have boxes full of wood. Many test were run and crooked didn't hurt accuracy, but on a 6mm the shank size of .243 shoved in a free bore diameter of .2435 doesn't really matter does it ..... Jim
Excellent. I appreciate anyone referencing logic fallacies in an argument. I wish reason and rhetoric were mandatory curriculum in our educational institutions.
I correct for runout. Why? Because someone with more knowledge than me said it was important. What I'd like to know is where does it show up as determental to precision? 0.003, 0.002? It's a non linear calculation, so we are talking about a 0.003 TIR being only 0.0015 per side. That's getting close to tool steel tolerances. Do amateurs like myself have the equipment or skill needed to measure that difference consistently, let alone shoot it and see the difference down range?
Again, I'd love to see someone isolate all the variables, especially the shooter, and show that runout has an impact, or if doesn't. I really like to quit fretting over it
If the round is crooked enough to hit the wall in the freebore portion, then the case in the chamber will be jacked sideways since it has some clearance also. What I am talking about when I say straightening ammo is not for factory rounds that have .005 of runout, but match rounds with .001 of runout, and are to be shot when the bullet is jumped.
Someone stated that all 600 and 1000 yard shooters shoot into the lands. That has not been my experience with shooters who shoot long VLD bullets. I would say that a sizeable number jump the VLD's. I know that I have had more luck jumping bullets than with those in the lands. I have a new 6BRA and I start testing in the lands and then back out. I will follow some advice I got long ago from Hall of Fame shooter Don Geraci and let the rifle tell me what it likes. If this new barrel does not like "jumping", I won't jump. If this barrel does not like Straightening....I won't straighten. I try to not be too dogmatic about any of my procedures.......we are never too old or experienced to learn. Good shooting.....James
Yes there is a very small clearance in the chamber if the brass is full length sized i would believe, that being the said even when a round is perfectly concentric wouldn't the round be riding on the bottom of the free bores surface due to its own weight and gravity forcing it there because there is clearance in the chamber? The clearance on a .243 bullet in a free bore that is .2435 is only .00025 so chances are your going to be closer to one side of the freebore than the other even with perfect bullet concentricity. I'm not disagreeing with anything here just thinking out loud..
Wouldn’t, during ignition, the firing pin having driven the case forward leave the case’s shoulder centered on the chamber’s shoulder …?
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