6.0 or 6.5 CM for longish range medium game

[long40shot]

Are you going with a custom barrel or a factory setup?

 

[Frankr]

well here is SW PA we hunt hill to hill and there are some remote locations where you can see a mile or two. I had a G7 Rangefinder and quite a few places I could not pick up just too far. .338LM or 50 BMG country there. But most of our hunting is 200 to 600 yards but you can easily get out to 1K. The big problem with wind here is the hills and valleys it is never consistent or can you trust it. I have seen no wind but you would have 15" of drift at 600 yards and I have seen where you can see for sure about a 5 MPH wind and hold it and hit right where your cross hair is. So here it is very tricky. Our deer season is in December and it can be very cold and windy. I shot a doe at 450 yards with a 140 VLD launched from a 6.5 creed at 2,950 FPS in a 25 MPH wind. but it was steady at 10 gusting to 25 you can not stay in a 25 MPH wind here in December you will freeze even in the very best Gortex hunting clothes you can buy. But there is not a deer that can take a 140 6.5 or a 105 6MM threw the boiler room out to 1000 yards. I am I big fan of the 6mm 105's I have killed 7 whitetail out to 500 yards and I am always impressed how HARD they hit not one of them moved.
My buddy gut shot one at just over 500 yards and it went 50 yards. So either the 6.5 140's with a .600+ BC at least 2,900 FPS in my opinion there is no hoofed game in North America that can take that bullet threw the boiler room. Now the freeky killing 6mm 105 have impressed me to the place that is all I hunt with They just work and as well as anything. I do not think the 6mm 105's would be my 1000 yard ELK load but I had seen a video of a cow ELK dropped in here track from a 105 VLD at 600 Yards and a few Black bears at 600 Yards one and done..They just kill well. don't know why. But I do believe about 750 Yards is it's MAX range do to velocity loss. You need at least 2,000 FPS contact speed and if you have that and it's in the boiler room it's one and done..That's just how it is...Now get under 2,000 FPS or miss your mark then maybe you need a BIG Magnum..But really you don't.

Just so ya know we have been shooting across these hills since I was 12 years old now 51...So shooting out to 500 or 800 yards is nothing new to us..Some still like the RUM's

 

[Frankr]

lol....

 

[onelastshot]

When people start discussing hunting with 500-600 yard shots in the equation I personally prefer something more than a 105 out of a 6mm or a 130 out of a 6.5CR. I've killed deer efficiently with both 6mm and 6.5, they both have the killing power. I own a 6.5-284 and trust it to efficiently kill, that being said I won't rely on it when you start discussing 500-600 yard shots. The reason is simple, wind. Out west on the open plains, the wind never stops. I want a cartridge that is going to minimize the affects of wind as much as possible.

My personal choice when shots exceed 300 is my 270WSM, for two reasons. First, I can use a heavier bullet and I can shoot it at higher velocities. Again, I'm not questioning the killing ability of the 6mm or the 6.5. What I'm saying is they don't handle the wind well.

I've only killed an animal out past 500 yards once. I was using a 375H&H with 240 grain bullets. It's a shot I probably would never take again. I simply don't spend enough at the range to justify shooting at that distance. Hitting a target consistently out past 500 yards takes practice, a lot of it. Making that kind of shot in a 20 mile an hour wind takes an exceptional shot. 6mm and 6.5mm bullets have the ability to kill at these longer distances, they don't however have the ability to effectively handle the wind. If you're going to shoot at these distances it doesn't make sense to use a 6mm or 6.5. There are too many great options in cartridges that are far better suited for long range hunting, the 284AI is a perfect example. If it's your desire to hunt at these ranges leave the 6mm and 6.5 cartridges at home, choose a cartridge that's designed for it.

 

[JBT47]

When people start discussing hunting with 500-600 yard shots in the equation I personally prefer something more than a 105 out of a 6mm or a 130 out of a 6.5CR. I've killed deer efficiently with both 6mm and 6.5, they both have the killing power. I own a 6.5-284 and trust it to efficiently kill, that being said I won't rely on it when you start discussing 500-600 yard shots. The reason is simple, wind. Out west on the open plains, the wind never stops. I want a cartridge that is going to minimize the affects of wind as much as possible.

My personal choice when shots exceed 300 is my 270WSM, for two reasons. First, I can use a heavier bullet and I can shoot it at higher velocities. Again, I'm not questioning the killing ability of the 6mm or the 6.5. What I'm saying is they don't handle the wind well.

I've only killed an animal out past 500 yards once. I was using a 375H&H with 240 grain bullets. It's a shot I probably would never take again. I simply don't spend enough at the range to justify shooting at that distance. Hitting a target consistently out past 500 yards takes practice, a lot of it. Making that kind of shot in a 20 mile an hour wind takes an exceptional shot. 6mm and 6.5mm bullets have the ability to kill at these longer distances, they don't however have the ability to effectively handle the wind. If you're going to shoot at these distances it doesn't make sense to use a 6mm or 6.5. There are too many great options in cartridges that are far better suited for long range hunting, the 284AI is a perfect example. If it's your desire to hunt at these ranges leave the 6mm and 6.5 cartridges at home, choose a cartridge that's designed for it.

Which bullet do you use in your .270 WSM?

 

[onelastshot]

Which bullet do you use in your .270 WSM?

I like the 150 grain Swift A-Frame. They're extremely accurate in my 270 and I like the penetration you get as well as the weight retention. With IMR4350, I can push a 150gr Swift at 3,000fps. I've thought of using the 160gr Nosler partition but don't want to give up too much velocity.

 

[Frankr]

When people start discussing hunting with 500-600 yard shots in the equation I personally prefer something more than a 105 out of a 6mm or a 130 out of a 6.5CR. I've killed deer efficiently with both 6mm and 6.5, they both have the killing power. I own a 6.5-284 and trust it to efficiently kill, that being said I won't rely on it when you start discussing 500-600 yard shots. The reason is simple, wind. Out west on the open plains, the wind never stops. I want a cartridge that is going to minimize the affects of wind as much as possible.

My personal choice when shots exceed 300 is my 270WSM, for two reasons. First, I can use a heavier bullet and I can shoot it at higher velocities. Again, I'm not questioning the killing ability of the 6mm or the 6.5. What I'm saying is they don't handle the wind well.

I've only killed an animal out past 500 yards once. I was using a 375H&H with 240 grain bullets. It's a shot I probably would never take again. I simply don't spend enough at the range to justify shooting at that distance. Hitting a target consistently out past 500 yards takes practice, a lot of it. Making that kind of shot in a 20 mile an hour wind takes an exceptional shot. 6mm and 6.5mm bullets have the ability to kill at these longer distances, they don't however have the ability to effectively handle the wind. If you're going to shoot at these distances it doesn't make sense to use a 6mm or 6.5. There are too many great options in cartridges that are far better suited for long range hunting, the 284AI is a perfect example. If it's your desire to hunt at these ranges leave the 6mm and 6.5 cartridges at home, choose a cartridge that's designed for it.

WRONG! You obviously do not understand ballistics and how bullets fly and do not understand the sectional density of a bullet. A 6.5 140 VLD at 3,000 FPS out of a 26" 6.5-284 is far better than a .270 150 at 3,000 FPS in the wind at any distance. But not that the 270 is bad it is very good ballistics and very capable out to 1000 Yards. About the same ballistics as a 6mm 105 although the 6mm 105 at 3,150 FPS is a little flatter and has less wind drift than that 270 150.

The 6.5/284 has or was a dominate 1000 yards cartridge for what 50 years ?

 

[fredo]

well here is SW PA we hunt hill to hill and there are some remote locations where you can see a mile or two. I had a G7 Rangefinder and quite a few places I could not pick up just too far. .338LM or 50 BMG country there. But most of our hunting is 200 to 600 yards but you can easily get out to 1K. The big problem with wind here is the hills and valleys it is never consistent or can you trust it. I have seen no wind but you would have 15" of drift at 600 yards and I have seen where you can see for sure about a 5 MPH wind and hold it and hit right where your cross hair is. So here it is very tricky. Our deer season is in December and it can be very cold and windy.

You're preachin' to the choir, here! This was a nice November afternoon in CNY, several years ago. There's nuthin' quite like freezin' to your shootin' mat to remind you of being alive...

7WSM there, BTW...

 

[seymour fish]

This thread has morphed into some folks ideas of what cartridge is the best choice for medium to medium long range shots. I am well aware of the merits of magnums, heavier bullets, etc. My question was more specific to the 6 CM vs. the 6.5 CM. Is there enough difference to even make a real difference between the two? The 6.0 has flatter trajectory and less recoil. The 6.5 has less wind drift and more downrange energy. Barrel life is not a consideration for a hunting rifle.

I had a 6.5 CM barrel and sold it a few days ago because it was a varmint contour and wanted something lighter. I am going to order a 22" heavy sporter contour once I decide.

Consider bullet speed at impact required for proper expansion a critical factor with these smaller Hunting calibers

 

[284winner]

When people start discussing hunting with 500-600 yard shots in the equation I personally prefer something more than a 105 out of a 6mm or a 130 out of a 6.5CR. I've killed deer efficiently with both 6mm and 6.5, they both have the killing power. I own a 6.5-284 and trust it to efficiently kill, that being said I won't rely on it when you start discussing 500-600 yard shots. The reason is simple, wind. Out west on the open plains, the wind never stops. I want a cartridge that is going to minimize the affects of wind as much as possible.

My personal choice when shots exceed 300 is my 270WSM, for two reasons. First, I can use a heavier bullet and I can shoot it at higher velocities. Again, I'm not questioning the killing ability of the 6mm or the 6.5. What I'm saying is they don't handle the wind well.

I've only killed an animal out past 500 yards once. I was using a 375H&H with 240 grain bullets. It's a shot I probably would never take again. I simply don't spend enough at the range to justify shooting at that distance. Hitting a target consistently out past 500 yards takes practice, a lot of it. Making that kind of shot in a 20 mile an hour wind takes an exceptional shot. 6mm and 6.5mm bullets have the ability to kill at these longer distances, they don't however have the ability to effectively handle the wind. If you're going to shoot at these distances it doesn't make sense to use a 6mm or 6.5. There are too many great options in cartridges that are far better suited for long range hunting, the 284AI is a perfect example. If it's your desire to hunt at these ranges leave the 6mm and 6.5 cartridges at home, choose a cartridge that's designed for it.

Hmmm. A 6.5 creedmore with any bullet vs a 6.5-284 with any bullet. No brainer. The 6.5-284 smokes it and any 6mm with a 105. Thinking maybe you miss spoke on those cartridges.

 

[284winner]

You're preachin' to the choir, here! This was a nice November afternoon in CNY, several years ago. There's nuthin' quite like freezin' to your shootin' mat to remind you of being alive...

7WSM there, BTW...

I love the look of that setup. Looks like many of my deer or coyote sets here in northern Mi.

 

[284winner]

WRONG! You obviously do not understand ballistics and how bullets fly and do not understand the sectional density of a bullet. A 6.5 140 VLD at 3,000 FPS out of a 26" 6.5-284 is far better than a .270 150 at 3,000 FPS in the wind at any distance. But not that the 270 is bad it is very good ballistics and very capable out to 1000 Yards. About the same ballistics as a 6mm 105 although the 6mm 105 at 3,150 FPS is a little flatter and has less wind drift than that 270 150.

The 6.5/284 has or was a dominate 1000 yards cartridge for what 50 years ?

WRONG! You obviously do not understand ballistics and how bullets fly and do not understand the sectional density of a bullet. A 6.5 140 VLD at 3,000 FPS out of a 26" 6.5-284 is far better than a .270 150 at 3,000 FPS in the wind at any distance. But not that the 270 is bad it is very good ballistics and very capable out to 1000 Yards. About the same ballistics as a 6mm 105 although the 6mm 105 at 3,150 FPS is a little flatter and has less wind drift than that 270 150.

The 6.5/284 has or was a dominate 1000 yards cartridge for what 50 years ?

Very very correct. No creedmore or 6mm will best any 6.5-284 for wind. Possibly less drop with a faster 6mm pushing lighter bullets but the wind will move them more than the heavier ballistically superior 140 bullets. That said, the 6.5 Creed, 260, 243 variants or 6mms are all great options but the 6.5-284 is king without getting into the magnum cartridges.

 

[JBT47]

.260 AI will get close to the performance of 6.5-284

 

[284winner]

.260 AI will get close to the performance of 6.5-284

Absolutely and with probably less barrel wear. No doubt there's some close seconds.

 

[Frankr]

Very very correct. No creedmore or 6mm will best any 6.5-284 for wind. Possibly less drop with a faster 6mm pushing lighter bullets but the wind will move them more than the heavier ballistically superior 140 bullets. That said, the 6.5 Creed, 260, 243 variants or 6mms are all great options but the 6.5-284 is king without getting into the magnum cartridges.

well that really depends on velocity and BC there are many 6.5/284 shooting 140 bullets with .535 BC around 2,950 FPS and a 6mm 115 dtac with .615 BC at 3,050 FPS from a 6XC has proven to outperform that 6.5 140 SMK at 1,000 yards in drop and wind drift. but in hunting bullets the 6.5 .625 BC bullets at say 2,800 fps and a 6mm 105 with a .530 BC at 3,150 fps will level that out again. with less drop and real close if not better wind drift depending on BC and velocity.
But there is no doubt in my mind when it come to deer size game big whittail's,mule deer,antlope. excluding elk(in my opinion) hit right with a 6mm 105 vld as long as that bullet is 2,000 FPS or above it is dropped in it's track as hit by any other caliber be it a 6.5 140 or biggest magnum you can come up with, dead is dead..right.
Plus my opinion of the 6.5 creed is it is a great round and with a 24" barrel and a quality hand load is capable of pushing a 140 class bullet at 2,950 FPS and the best 6.5/284 I ever seen was at 3,050 FPS with a 140 so in my opinion is there is not a lot of difference between the two other than if you play by the 2,000 FPS min contact speed then the 100 FPS adds 100 yards to the range of the 6.5/284.. so you have to be real in your comparision...not the 6.5 creed factory ammo at 2,700 FPS and the 6.5/284 at 3,050 then the same applies look to see where the bullet falls below 2,000 FPS and the 6.5 creed would be 550 yards. that would take the 6.5/284 to 750 yards.

 

[284winner]

well that really depends on velocity and BC there are many 6.5/284 shooting 140 bullets with .535 BC around 2,950 FPS and a 6mm 115 dtac with .615 BC at 3,050 FPS from a 6XC has proven to outperform that 6.5 140 SMK at 1,000 yards in drop and wind drift. but in hunting bullets the 6.5 .625 BC bullets at say 2,800 fps and a 6mm 105 with a .530 BC at 3,150 fps will level that out again. with less drop and real close if not better wind drift depending on BC and velocity.
But there is no doubt in my mind when it come to deer size game big whittail's,mule deer,antlope. excluding elk(in my opinion) hit right with a 6mm 105 vld as long as that bullet is 2,000 FPS or above it is dropped in it's track as hit by any other caliber be it a 6.5 140 or biggest magnum you can come up with, dead is dead..right.
Plus my opinion of the 6.5 creed is it is a great round and with a 24" barrel and a quality hand load is capable of pushing a 140 class bullet at 2,950 FPS and the best 6.5/284 I ever seen was at 3,050 FPS with a 140 so in my opinion is there is not a lot of difference between the two other than if you play by the 2,000 FPS min contact speed then the 100 FPS adds 100 yards to the range of the 6.5/284.. so you have to be real in your comparision...not the 6.5 creed factory ammo at 2,700 FPS and the 6.5/284 at 3,050 then the same applies look to see where the bullet falls below 2,000 FPS and the 6.5 creed would be 550 yards. that would take the 6.5/284 to 750 yards.

Guess I'm speaking of apples to apples. I'm running my 6.5-284 around 3025-3030 with 140 Amax bullets. BCs around .620. Right on tho. Dead is dead and the 6mms rock. Not taking anything away from them but just feel there a bit inferior to the 140s on bigger animals. I've killed deer way out with 95s from a 243 so I understand they definitely get it done.

 

[Frankr]

Consider bullet speed at impact required for proper expansion a critical factor with these smaller Hunting calibers

I think this is very true as far a quick clean kill. There are those that go FT LB of energy and those of us who don't give a shit about the energy were like the Honeybadger we don't give a shit about FT LB's it's all about bullet speed and having enough speed for the bullet to perform as it should. Now I do agree a Heavy bullet when it's out of gas and does not have the speed then the heavy bullet and it's FT LB's are going to make the difference Or up close I think the heavy bullet on tough game is a better choice I worry about dumping a black bear up close with a light expanding bullet like the 105 vld like at 50 to 100 yards due to it's speed and know violent expansion..I break out the old .270 win for that with a 150 for sure or now I have it loaded with a 145 ELD-X witch in my opinion is a 150 class bullet due to the BC and SD.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Hmmm. A 6.5 creedmore with any bullet vs a 6.5-284 with any bullet. No brainer. The 6.5-284 smokes it and any 6mm with a 105. Thinking maybe you miss spoke on those cartridges.

Very very correct. No creedmore or 6mm will best any 6.5-284 for wind. Possibly less drop with a faster 6mm pushing lighter bullets but the wind will move them more than the heavier ballistically superior 140 bullets. That said, the 6.5 Creed, 260, 243 variants or 6mms are all great options but the 6.5-284 is king without getting into the magnum cartridges.

Guess I'm speaking of apples to apples. I'm running my 6.5-284 around 3025-3030 with 140 Amax bullets. BCs around .620. Right on tho. Dead is dead and the 6mms rock. Not taking anything away from them but just feel there a bit inferior to the 140s on bigger animals. I've killed deer way out with 95s from a 243 so I understand they definitely get it done.

Pick a theme or coarse of direction and stick with it, you flop like a fish out of water after being set straight.
1st- a 6.5-06, or 6.5 swede will most likely match the 6.5x284 in any hunting situation w/o stepping into a magnum,
2nd- just when did the 140 amax sprout a .620 bc?

 

[284winner]

Pick a theme or coarse of direction and stick with it, you flop like a fish out of water after being set straight.
1st- a 6.5-06, or 6.5 swede will most likely match the 6.5x284 in any hunting situation w/o stepping into a magnum,
2nd- just when did the 140 amax sprout a .620 bc?

U must be speaking to another. No flip flopping here. Mine are facts not guesses. Published numbers say .585. Very conservative. .615-.620 is much closer. I'm no Brian Litz so I'm sure I'm getting beat up over my estimation of this bullet. My drop data estimates is in these numbers. Call me Nosler if I'm that far off.

 

[284winner]

U must be speaking to another. No flip flopping here. Mine are facts not guesses. Published numbers say .585. Very conservative. .615-.620 is much closer.

The real question was what my response was related too. Comparing a 6.5 to a 6mm. My response was in my opinion no comparison. Not picking fly shit out of pepper whether a 6.5-06 or swede out powers a 6.5-284. Who cares. The 6.5 in the rough case capacity of a 6.5-284 bests any 6mm cartridge bullet combo for wind and many times deer as well without getting into magnum cases. That was my response. Those are my facts and opinions on this subject. It was a 6mm vs 6.5mm question.