Antelope bullet

[Blackthorn]

525yds? Do you think that is long range? A real hammer? I guess a 300wm and a 338lm are tack hammers. For the record when you put a 300gr SMK into a deer head at 400yds it doesn't look like a tack hammer was at work.

That came out of my 300WM. Never thought about shooting a deer in the head but I have killed a buck that someone tried to. Broke his jaw.. Wasn't the buck I was looking for but I choose to do the right thing..
You just keep what you're doing.. I'll stick to what I know...

 

[onelastshot]

I am so sick of this out right lying. It is almost a lie repeated becomes the truth.

I have used many different SMK bullets 22cal 30cal and 338cal. Hundreds of animals I have shot with the bullets and all of them died within a few yds of where they were shot. Not only are they accurate bullets they are great hunting bullets. I have killed a few elk with them, scores of deer and antelope, hundreds of coyotes and a few thousand pd. They flat out work for hunting.

I am not the only person who uses match bullets to hunt. Most traditional hunting bullets do not perform at distance. They just ice pick thru. Heck I can use AP at far less cost and get the same performance.

Of course sierra states they are designed to expand. What paper will cause a bullet to expand or mushroom? A bigger issue is if hey came out and stated they could be used for hunting I bet it would hurt their government contracts.

It's not a lie, grow up. It's simply following the bullet company's recommendation. For head shots sure no questions asked. But when a bullet blows up in a shoulder because it's not designed to have controlled expansion then it's wrong.

 

[long40shot]

What a surprise. Another pissing match.

 

[people]

That came out of my 300WM. Never thought about shooting a deer in the head but I have killed a buck that someone tried to. Broke his jaw.. Wasn't the buck I was looking for but I choose to do the right thing..
You just keep what you're doing.. I'll stick to what I know...

Yup wrong information.

 

[people]

It's not a lie, grow up. It's simply following the bullet company's recommendation. For head shots sure no questions asked. But when a bullet blows up in a shoulder because it's not designed to have controlled expansion then it's wrong.

No it is a lie. You should work on your reading comprehension.

From their website
"While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. Although MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are commonly used for varmint hunting, their design will not provide the same reliable explosive expansion at equivalent velocities in varmints compared to their lightly jacketed Hornet, Blitz or Varminter counterparts."

Since you do not read so well. They are mot as strong as "traditional hunting bullets" and not as soft as "varmint bullets"

Never had one just blow up I a shoulder. Even in an elk. All of hem made it all the way into the chest cavity to make the innards look like a grenade went off inside. Deer sized critters always get pass through with massive wound channel.

 

[people]

What a surprise. Another pissing match.

Yes it amazing. Some have to force the do it as I do down our throat. They just can't get past the fact they work. Spreading lies is never good.

 

[oldhoward]

Hi, I have tried many bullets in my 300 WM from many companies over the last 45 years. The Nosler partitions have been the best all around game bullet I have found. I have killed a deer at 6/10ths of a mile, clocked from my truck, and they worked very well. I have shot deer at close range as well and it killed them with out blowing a huge hole in them. I use the 165 grain partitions at 3100 fps range and never had a failure to perform. For larger game I stepped up to the 180 grain, mostly for African game, and they killed everything I shot from Duiker to Eland.
The partitions many not have the best bc or the latest design but they do work.

 

[284winner]

A sane rationale voice; one of the few people speaking out for the right bullets. I don't understand why people get on this post or others and make recommendations when they have no experience or have no idea as to what they are talking about.

Target bullets are just that, target bullets. The manufacturer has come out and clearly stated that SMK's are target bullets and should not be used on animals. In spite of this, several people with no experience have come out and advised that they think the bullets are a good choice for game animals. These people will not be with you when you chase down a crippled animal because you used the wrong bullet. Read the manufacturer's description of their product. They are very clear regarding what their products should be used for and what they should not be used for.

It's not really AT ALL accurate when you say inexperienced people. Many, many very experienced people kill game animals with match bullets extremely efficiently and effectively. Many, more so than with "game bullets". To be perfectly clear, for me they do much more damage based on range. Keep it accurate when you state inexperienced guys telling others to use match bullets. I think your reading experiences by guys killing animals with match bullets and they are very good experiences. I've NEVER had a bad recovery experience as in long miserable tracking or not finding one. All were no tracking or yardages less than 40. It's fine to disagree with there use. It's also fine to say the manufacturer does not recommend there use on game. Recommendations mean nothing. They are just that...recommendations. Besides this topic has been beat to death and will continue to be controversial till the end of time. We all will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[onelastshot]

It's not really AT ALL accurate when you say inexperienced people. Many, many very experienced people kill game animals with match bullets extremely efficiently and effectively. Many, more so than with "game bullets". To be perfectly clear, for me they do much more damage based on range. Keep it accurate when you state inexperienced guys telling others to use match bullets. I think your reading experiences by guys killing animals with match bullets and they are very good experiences. I've NEVER had a bad recovery experience as in long miserable tracking or not finding one. All were no tracking or yardages less than 40. It's fine to disagree with there use. It's also fine to say the manufacturer does not recommend there use on game. Recommendations mean nothing. They are just that...recommendations. Besides this topic has been beat to death and will continue to be controversial till the end of time. We all will just have to agree to disagree.

You're correct, I should not have said inexperienced individuals, what I should have said was ill informed individuals. I know full well you can kill game animals with target bullets. Shoot a deer broadside with any high-powered rifle bullet and you will kill it. What I'm saying is that it is irresponsible to use bullets designed for targets when companies such as Sierra have gone to great lengths to design bullets that will perform in less than optimal situations. Hit a deer in the shoulder with a target bullet and it may very well fragment without penetrating the shoulder getting to the vital organs. There have been people who for years have used target bullets successfully on game animals. All I'm stating is that it's irresponsible to use these bullets when a company go to great lengths to design bullets for hunting situations.

 

[284winner]

You're correct, I should not have said inexperienced individuals, what I should have said was ill informed individuals. I know full well you can kill game animals with target bullets. Shoot a deer broadside with any high-powered rifle bullet and you will kill it. What I'm saying is that it is irresponsible to use bullets designed for targets when companies such as Sierra have gone to great lengths to design bullets that will perform in less than optimal situations. Hit a deer in the shoulder with a target bullet and it may very well fragment without penetrating the shoulder getting to the vital organs. There have been people who for years have used target bullets successfully on game animals. All I'm stating is that it's irresponsible to use these bullets when a company go to great lengths to design bullets for hunting situations.

I would have probably agreed with your statements regarding match bullets prior to using them many years ago shooting groundhogs and coyotes on a farm in central Ohio. Use of the match bullets were simply due to accuracy and not concern for the coyote or ground hogs. Once used at various ranges, I came to realize after seeing the wound channels and damage on shoulder shots at 300-1000 yards, I would give them a try on a deer hunt one late summer on a crop damage deer control hunt in Northeast Michigan. To my surprise those Amax bullets worked superbly on killing deer with ZERO tracking and pretty decent bullet performance on the animal itself. Some damage was violent and some not any worse than my partitions will perform. IMO, there's a range where these bullets outperform "Game" bullets and other ranges that they probably should be left in the box. I use bonded type bullets and I use the match type depending on the range I'm shooting. I'm fully informed and knowledgeable in all these bullets and their performance and will continue to use them. There was a writer in precision shooting magazine that religiously used match bullets for big game hunting and I doubt that he would be criticized for his use with those projectiles. Proof is in the results. Those results and undeniable and hard to argue with. Until those bullets prove to be inferior in my use, I will keep them I'm my magazines ready for the task. Along with those will be Partitions, Sierra BT soft points and Sciroccos. I won't criticize those that choose to stick with the "game designed" hunting bullets however I will say I've seen game bullets used that did not perform properly as well and the animal was not recovered. At some point, all bullets will perform less than expected. Put the bullet in the vitals and the end result will be a tagged animal regardless of what bullet is used.

 

[people]

You're correct, I should not have said inexperienced individuals, what I should have said was ill informed individuals. I know full well you can kill game animals with target bullets. Shoot a deer broadside with any high-powered rifle bullet and you will kill it. What I'm saying is that it is irresponsible to use bullets designed for targets when companies such as Sierra have gone to great lengths to design bullets that will perform in less than optimal situations. Hit a deer in the shoulder with a target bullet and it may very well fragment without penetrating the shoulder getting to the vital organs. There have been people who for years have used target bullets successfully on game animals. All I'm stating is that it's irresponsible to use these bullets when a company go to great lengths to design bullets for hunting situations.

Basically you are stating slob hunters are slobs. I will agree with that 100%. These "hunters" wound, kill, and loose big game in very large numbers. It doesn't matter what tool they use to accomplish their poor accomplishments. Bow, rifle, hunting bullet, or match bullet what ever the tool is.

Many years ago I posted about my trip hunting with my friend. All of them bought factory hunting ammunition. I would go out on a limb and guess 80-90% of hunters in ND just buy ammo for hunting. Here is the story it is copied from the post I made years ago.

Let me tell you a little story about my trip the river bottoms south of Bismarck with my friends family. All of them shoot 30-06's except one who uses a 243. This one year they lost two deer they shot both with 06's. While I was walking around in the river bottoms I saw three dead deer before any of the group fired a shot. One was easily a gun shot one I could not tell and the other was a bow shot. Later on I saw a forth deer a doe and was chewed on. So it had been there since first season I would think.
Then on Sunday I saw two OK bucks a 3x3 and a 3x2. One of the group took a shot at a running buck and hit is high in the lunges. Very small blood trail. I was trying to track it and search for it but after a few hours they said stop. As we were walking out I saw a nice spike that apparently that died of a hole in the chest.

The total number of deer that were killed that I saw was seven. With the two hits and losses that would make it nine. Let us call it seven as I do not know if the two they shot died or I eventually found one of the deer.

Ill informed hunters know no bounds to their failure. Some get past their failures and others are just doomed to repeat them over and over.

It is not irresponsible to use match bullets at all. What is irresponsible is using a bullet that will not allow you as a hunter to accomplish your goals. No matter the bullet.

Now if you want to buy me "hunting" bullets like partitions that do not shoot as well at distance I will gladly take your money and shoot two or three times to get kills.

 

[JRS]

Bullet placement is the key… at any distance.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I use Bergers for hunting. I have never had a failure. But I know of reliable guys that have. Why do they occasionally blow up or pencil through? I have no idea. I know the tips must be clear and not closed. I have also been told by an friend that the same bullet performs differently out of different rifles he owns even though they are the same caliber. That would imply one barrel is harder on the jacket and causes the bullet to open more violently. I always shoot for lungs/heart and try to not hit shoulder blade. I do not mind them running 50-100 yards, so I do not feel the need to break the shoulder and waste the meat. Anymore all I hunt is elk. You can put a 2" hole thought their heart and they will go 75 yards. Its normal, to get those drop in their tracks shots, you are breaking bone or doing spinal damage usually, doesnt mean they are dead faster than a lung or heart shot. I would put my shooting skill against any hunter, and I wouldnt take a head shot even with a benchrest rifle. It disgusts me, the target is tiny, and I have seen what happens when it doesnt work out.

 

[284winner]

Basically you are stating slob hunters are slobs. I will agree with that 100%. These "hunters" wound, kill, and loose big game in very large numbers. It doesn't matter what tool they use to accomplish their poor accomplishments. Bow, rifle, hunting bullet, or match bullet what ever the tool is.

Many years ago I posted about my trip hunting with my friend. All of them bought factory hunting ammunition. I would go out on a limb and guess 80-90% of hunters in ND just buy ammo for hunting. Here is the story it is copied from the post I made years ago.

Let me tell you a little story about my trip the river bottoms south of Bismarck with my friends family. All of them shoot 30-06's except one who uses a 243. This one year they lost two deer they shot both with 06's. While I was walking around in the river bottoms I saw three dead deer before any of the group fired a shot. One was easily a gun shot one I could not tell and the other was a bow shot. Later on I saw a forth deer a doe and was chewed on. So it had been there since first season I would think.
Then on Sunday I saw two OK bucks a 3x3 and a 3x2. One of the group took a shot at a running buck and hit is high in the lunges. Very small blood trail. I was trying to track it and search for it but after a few hours they said stop. As we were walking out I saw a nice spike that apparently that died of a hole in the chest.

The total number of deer that were killed that I saw was seven. With the two hits and losses that would make it nine. Let us call it seven as I do not know if the two they shot died or I eventually found one of the deer.

Ill informed hunters know no bounds to their failure. Some get past their failures and others are just doomed to repeat them over and over.

It is not irresponsible to use match bullets at all. What is irresponsible is using a bullet that will not allow you as a hunter to accomplish your goals. No matter the bullet.

Now if you want to buy me "hunting" bullets like partitions that do not shoot as well at distance I will gladly take your money and shoot two or three times to get kills.

I think well informed, well equipped and well trained shooters that do shoot match type bullets on large game animals do not need to explain or justify their reasons for effectively and efficiently killing animals humanely year after year. As you just described, it's the guys using the wrong bullet for the job that that have some explaining to do. We see it over and over. Wounding and wasting game animals comes with lack of time on the gun and lack of knowledge of where to place bullets on game. Has zero to do with bullet construction or the name on the box let alone a manufacturer not recommending a bullets use on game animals.

 

[Tommie]

And then there's the people who swear by military surplus FMJ ammo...

 

[long40shot]

If the 168 grain bullet is your pick. I'd try a 168grn Nosler bt or a 168grn Berger Classic Hunter.

 

[JSH]

Always seems to be and interesting topic, as long as one can keep and open mind.
Bullet performance.
What one deems excellent, another may think it to be the worst.
I see a fairly large following across several places I frequent, that if it is not bang flop, DRT, the bullet failed.
I have been some places that if it didn't not happen that way, and the critter went 50 yards or more, you probably would not recover it.
I recovered what was left of a projectile several years back. All that was left was an empty jacket. I soundly made the statement of the poor performance and what a failure it was. My shooting/hunting bud says " now what the heck kinda statement is that, you recovered the critter and the bullet, it killed the animal didn't it?" What more do you want?

I will throw another into your mix. I am a bullet caster. I have yet to recover a 35 caliber cast bullet from a deer. Shot in an assortment of pistols,wheelguns and rifles. I use what some consider heavy, 180-220 grain.
I have tried various shot angles close and far, depending on the platform in my hand. All have left two holes and as good internal damage as any hunting bullet I have ever tried.

So just what do we think is a failure?

I was always taught the right tool for the job.
This is the kind of subject that one needs to really think about before posting. There are a lot of newbies that read and don't ask or post. If it was on the net it is true.

I don't frequent the local Cabelas much anymore. I would say every second or third male through the door is an expert marksman or a sniper, just ask them.
Sure, a majority of folks here and other places can probably poke a hole in a deer head sized target out to 500 yards on a regular basis. The problem is folks when you go doing that to a live critter, they can move. It's not a pie plate or a target stapled up on a board or stake.
The vitals is a huge area when compared to what is available from the neck to the brain.
One neck shooter I hunted with shot a doe at around 150 yards broadside with a 243 and a 100 grain bullet. Bang flop. By the time we got there she was up and staggering like a drunk. I shot her behind the from shoulder and it was over.
Upon skinning, he had hit her high in the meaty part of the neck. Only damage was a hole. We figure the hydraulics stunned her through the spinal column.

 

[284winner]

Always seems to be and interesting topic, as long as one can keep and open mind.
Bullet performance.
What one deems excellent, another may think it to be the worst.
I see a fairly large following across several places I frequent, that if it is not bang flop, DRT, the bullet failed.
I have been some places that if it didn't not happen that way, and the critter went 50 yards or more, you probably would not recover it.
I recovered what was left of a projectile several years back. All that was left was an empty jacket. I soundly made the statement of the poor performance and what a failure it was. My shooting/hunting bud says " now what the heck kinda statement is that, you recovered the critter and the bullet, it killed the animal didn't it?" What more do you want?

I will throw another into your mix. I am a bullet caster. I have yet to recover a 35 caliber cast bullet from a deer. Shot in an assortment of pistols,wheelguns and rifles. I use what some consider heavy, 180-220 grain.
I have tried various shot angles close and far, depending on the platform in my hand. All have left two holes and as good internal damage as any hunting bullet I have ever tried.

So just what do we think is a failure?

I was always taught the right tool for the job.
This is the kind of subject that one needs to really think about before posting. There are a lot of newbies that read and don't ask or post. If it was on the net it is true.

I don't frequent the local Cabelas much anymore. I would say every second or third male through the door is an expert marksman or a sniper, just ask them.
Sure, a majority of folks here and other places can probably poke a hole in a deer head sized target out to 500 yards on a regular basis. The problem is folks when you go doing that to a live critter, they can move. It's not a pie plate or a target stapled up on a board or stake.
The vitals is a huge area when compared to what is available from the neck to the brain.
One neck shooter I hunted with shot a doe at around 150 yards broadside with a 243 and a 100 grain bullet. Bang flop. By the time we got there she was up and staggering like a drunk. I shot her behind the from shoulder and it was over.
Upon skinning, he had hit her high in the meaty part of the neck. Only damage was a hole. We figure the hydraulics stunned her through the spinal column.

I suppose that's why so many guys do love the berger. The end result is a dead animal. Regardless of if the bullet fragments and damages meat or the opposite. The animal is dead because accuracy matters.

 

[JRS]

I suppose that's why so many guys do love the berger. The end result is a dead animal. Regardless of if the bullet fragments and damages meat or the opposite. The animal is dead because accuracy matters.

Not always. Whether a Berger bullet, or any other brand, the shooter has to place that bullet in the proper place. More than one hunter has been unsuccessful using Berger bullets. Shot placement, distance and velocity

 

[284winner]

Not always. Whether a Berger bullet, or any other brand, the shooter has to place that bullet in the proper place. More than one hunter has been unsuccessful using Berger bullets. Shot placement, distance and velocity

I'm sure but there accuracy track record is second to none. Again, accuracy IS whats most important.