Thoughts on frangible bullets pros and cons
Thoughts on frangible bullet
- Thread starter savagedasher
- Start date
Both 223 and hand guns will they reduce or stop ricochets Larry
rjtfroggy
Gold $$ Contributor
They will definitely stop ricochets or at least the ones I used at Sig Arms Academy did. When they hit a solid object they turned to dust( steel plate). After a day of shooting indoors a class of six people shooting unknown number of rounds ( I shot at least 450 myself) all we did was sweep up the floor.
Thanks. I need all the information I can get both good and bad Larry
SavageD-
Howdy !
I used on in my 4 " .357Mag "N "-frame, to take-out a groundhog peeking out from under a barn door.
The back stop was in-essence a cinder block milkhouse, that was about 10 feet beyond his position.
The shot was taken w/ the barrel parallel to the barn door from a distance of 25', and the frangible bullet hit him in the upper shoulder beneath the neck. The kill ws clean, and the bullet did not exit the animal, and the milkhouse remained undamaged. Worked as-advertised, which is what I was relying on.
As regards use in rifles:
I myself have yet to try any out in this application. I think they could be a way fwd in the "green" bullet
offerings. There are some challenges to achieving satisfactory ( traditional ) bullet wt, for a given caliber /twist rate.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I used on in my 4 " .357Mag "N "-frame, to take-out a groundhog peeking out from under a barn door.
The back stop was in-essence a cinder block milkhouse, that was about 10 feet beyond his position.
The shot was taken w/ the barrel parallel to the barn door from a distance of 25', and the frangible bullet hit him in the upper shoulder beneath the neck. The kill ws clean, and the bullet did not exit the animal, and the milkhouse remained undamaged. Worked as-advertised, which is what I was relying on.
As regards use in rifles:
I myself have yet to try any out in this application. I think they could be a way fwd in the "green" bullet
offerings. There are some challenges to achieving satisfactory ( traditional ) bullet wt, for a given caliber /twist rate.
With regards,
357Mag
I have shot the bullets . I was wondering if other have I need information on if the fragment when hitting in the dirt and don't ricochet. Larry
I bought some for defensive purposes several years ago. They were Extreme Shock brand and I used the Air Freedom rounds in 9mm and 40 S&W that had a plastic tip. I made a couple pieces of wall (2X4 with 1/2" drywall on each side, and the same except 1/2" plywood and fiberglass insulation for the outside wall with the inside still being drywall. I set up a third wall of just drywall. The entry was a typical round hole. It started coming apart by the second piece of drywall. On the outside wall with plywood, only a few tiny pieces got through but didn't completely penetrate the 3'd piece of drywall set behind the other 2 wall sections. I figured that if I had to fire inside the house, my neighbors may survive. I may check back and see if they make the same for a .223.
Thanks need all the information possible .
Thanks Larry
Hopeing I can find something about ricochets when the bullet hit in dirt . Thanks for any information Larry
https://www.sinterfire.com/Default.aspx
Larry, consider this projectile.. we have used it at the USNA before to help mitigate ricochet in CQB training and also decrease our surface danger zone. it was commercially manufactured and government procured. It has since been replaced by a semijacketed frangible bullet. these can be a little tricky to handload but I think are worth the effort. any question shoot me a PM.
cheers,
doc
Larry, consider this projectile.. we have used it at the USNA before to help mitigate ricochet in CQB training and also decrease our surface danger zone. it was commercially manufactured and government procured. It has since been replaced by a semijacketed frangible bullet. these can be a little tricky to handload but I think are worth the effort. any question shoot me a PM.
cheers,
doc
Thanks Larry
rjtfroggy
Gold $$ Contributor
Look here https://frangiblebullets.com/
Thanks Larry
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
Good on you for the time and effort to create this real world experiment!
The reason iam asking is for safety at a gun range Help stoping ricochets from leaving the property Larry
Everything ricochets. The issue is how small are the fragments and how far after the ricochet do they represent a risk. I tend to think about "frangible" bullets in 3 categories:
1. Thin jacket and pure lead - varmint style rifle bullets. Stuff like the 55 vmax in .223 and 110 vmax in .308 are fine for varmint hunting when the goal is not to present a risk 100s of yards beyond where the bullet impacts the ground. These bullets also do very well not having risk of "backsplash" at the shooter when hitting hardened steel targets at 100 yards.
2. Thin copper jacket and powdered composite. These shorten the length of the post-ricochet risk. Jacket fragments are the limiting factor. How far depends on the hardness of the surface, the impact velocity, and the thickness of the jacket.
3. Pure powdered composite - no jacket. These tend to shorten the distance of the post-ricochet risk even more. Fragments kicked out of the ground, the wall, or other materials that are impacted often can carry more post-ricochet risk than the powder and tiny fragments that the bullet becomes.
But other than simple rank ordering (as above) guarantees of zero risk beyond a specific range will be hard to come by, as there are too many variables in play.
My experience has been that other than soft lead in a thin jacket, most frangible bullets represent a significant compromise in accuracy, so I ensure safety the old fashioned way: be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
When shooting steel with handguns, the steel challenge guidelines are pretty good for jacketed lead bullets regarding the distances and so on. I'm not sure you can bring that in much closer with frangible bullets, and I still recommend all the safety gear to protect skin and eyes against the occasional back splash.
1. Thin jacket and pure lead - varmint style rifle bullets. Stuff like the 55 vmax in .223 and 110 vmax in .308 are fine for varmint hunting when the goal is not to present a risk 100s of yards beyond where the bullet impacts the ground. These bullets also do very well not having risk of "backsplash" at the shooter when hitting hardened steel targets at 100 yards.
2. Thin copper jacket and powdered composite. These shorten the length of the post-ricochet risk. Jacket fragments are the limiting factor. How far depends on the hardness of the surface, the impact velocity, and the thickness of the jacket.
3. Pure powdered composite - no jacket. These tend to shorten the distance of the post-ricochet risk even more. Fragments kicked out of the ground, the wall, or other materials that are impacted often can carry more post-ricochet risk than the powder and tiny fragments that the bullet becomes.
But other than simple rank ordering (as above) guarantees of zero risk beyond a specific range will be hard to come by, as there are too many variables in play.
My experience has been that other than soft lead in a thin jacket, most frangible bullets represent a significant compromise in accuracy, so I ensure safety the old fashioned way: be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
When shooting steel with handguns, the steel challenge guidelines are pretty good for jacketed lead bullets regarding the distances and so on. I'm not sure you can bring that in much closer with frangible bullets, and I still recommend all the safety gear to protect skin and eyes against the occasional back splash.
Thanks Larry
Can't do it without help from others.
Thanks Larry
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