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Light transmission

I have to disagree on a larger lens offering lesser image quality. Many times I have looked through Swarovski ATS 65mm spotting scopes and Swarovski ATS 80mm spotting scopes with the same eye piece. They use the same HD glass and coatings from Swarovski, the only difference being the size of the lenses in the body. However, when you set both of them side by side, the view through the 80mm ATS spotting scope appears to be much sharper and brighter with better contrast on all identical power levels compared to the 65mm model.

I agree that larger lenses are harder to correct and refine to get top level image quality, but high end optics manufacturers conquered that feat long ago. As a result, a larger lens with the same image quality capabilities can and will produce a much more pleasing image.
 
I had a couple (kind of) older Kahles 3-12x56 that did really well. If I could see the deer with naked eyes, I could tell buck or doe with the scope. Up to 100 or so, yards, I could see antlers, width, and general sense of points. Helia Ls it seems like they were.

Same scopes could determine at 250 yards that they were deer, which end was which, and pick out the white under the neck. Couldn't discern antlers at that distance.

This was last possible shooting times with brown hay pasture background.
 
Just thought I would resurrect this thread and mention that the latest issue of Sniper magazine has an article that talks about objective lenses and what they really do. I challenge you all to read it and then comment.
 
Just thought I would resurrect this thread and mention that the latest issue of Sniper magazine has an article that talks about objective lenses and what they really do. I challenge you all to read it and then comment.

I know this is asking a lot, but....any chance you could post that article???? I have never even heard of "Sniper" magazine.......but I would like to read the article.
 
The challenge issued by rifleman700 was posted to a few threads here.

I did a brief review of that article in the "objective lens diameter size" thread, right below this one. I had never heard of Sniper magazine either but I was goaded into looking for it and buying it at my local Kroger store. I'll not be buying another issue.
 
The challenge issued by rifleman700 was posted to a few threads here.

I did a brief review of that article in the "objective lens diameter size" thread, right below this one. I had never heard of Sniper magazine either but I was goaded into looking for it and buying it at my local Kroger store. I'll not be buying another issue.


This response speaks volumes.
 
The challenge issued by rifleman700 was posted to a few threads here.

I did a brief review of that article in the "objective lens diameter size" thread, right below this one. I had never heard of Sniper magazine either but I was goaded into looking for it and buying it at my local Kroger store. I'll not be buying another issue.


That bad huh???????

Tomes even, voluminous ones.

Now who could argue with this?????? I don't have a clue, but I am going to go ahead and leave the magazine alone.
 
Well, read my little review on the other thread. There are some nuggets in the article, but his main premise is totally wrong showing a lack of understanding of optics.
 
I know this is asking a lot, but....any chance you could post that article???? I have never even heard of "Sniper" magazine.......but I would like to read the article.

I will try to find it online but as with past issues it may not be available. I found this latest issue at Walmart. Before this issue I was getting a notice from Guns and Ammo and ordering it online. There is a lame copycat magazine out there so make sure it is the Guns and Ammo version.

For those not familiar with this magazine, it is primarily centered around military / sniper applications which can also include PRS. Writers include Tom Beckstrand - the editor who I believe is former military, Caylen Wojcik who is a former Marine sniper and now is an instructor with Magpul, Todd Hodnett who owns Accuracy First, a company that trains military and civilians in LR shooting. Todd also is one of the designers of the Tremor speed reticles if I remember right. I know he works closely with Horus. Bryan Litz with Berger / AB has also written for this magazine.

For those that try to discredit this magazine as just another typical gun rag you could not be more wrong. It is an annual magazine and is filled with real life data points and I have yet to read any bias in their writings.

The article about objective lenses dispels a lot of myths that have circled the internet for years. If you don't agree with what is written here in this article I challenge you to give factual reasons for your disagreement. To just say you don't agree and to not give a reason really shows someone's character or lack of it. I used to be one of those that believed a lot of this crap circling the internet until I read one of Tom Beckstrand's articles a couple of years ago. I was so confused I called a couple of scope manufacturers to ask them some questions. The problem I found is that most all of the Tech line people that answer the phones also repeat these myths. I say myths but they are actually half truths. Read the article and you will see what I mean. So I went on believing what I have always believed until I was able to talk to an Optics Engineer at Shot Show when I was able to confirm the things written in Tom's article. The funny thing is after I learned all of this it did not really change how or what scope I use because I was already using scopes that best fit my needs but the information was good to know.

Looking forward to all of your comments.
 
Fair enough, and since you can't seem to find my earlier posting on the other thread to which you posted your challenge, I'm repeating it here.

I made a special trip to the store in order find the current issue of Sniper, from Guns and Ammo. I’m now sorry I did that and rifleman700 owes me $9.73 and I’m not including the cost of me writing this post.


The article is written by Tom Beckstrand. I’ve seen his name before, and probably even read some of his earlier prose but after reading his article “I Object!” I think I’ll give him a wide berth from now on.


His opening paragraph is where he commits his biggest mistake when he says that the statement “a bigger objective lens gathers more light” is wrong. He does not take exception to the use of the word “gather,” which I could understand and agree with, he just says the statement is wrong, but he doesn’t quite come out and say WHY he thinks it’s wrong. Certainly not in the opening paragraph and not in the second paragraph.


In the third paragraph he starts talking about the fact the objective lens size determines the size of the exit pupil but then brushes that aside for now. Strange, because he just contradicted himself. A bigger objective lens produces a larger exit pupil. That would mean that a larger objective lens let in a more light than a smaller objective lens because you need light to create a bigger exit pupil. I guess he was absent that day in optics 101.


From that point, the rest of the article is aimed at (pardon the pun) snipers and snipers-wannabees. He talks about how you actually want the smallest possible exit pupil because you’re more certain to be properly behind the rifle to take the shot. He also talks about glass quality and he seems to have recently discovered something called ED glass. He insists that nothing under $2,500 is worth anything (not that I disagree completely with that,) but the thing of it is, I am not a sniper. I never was a sniper and I will never be a sniper nor do I have any delusions or illusions of being a sniper. I am a long range F-TR competitor, period, end of story.


As a competitor, I will spend quality time looking through my riflescope and my spotting scope. My March-X 5-50X56 produces an exit pupil of between 1.4 and 1.12 millimeter depending on whether I’m at 40X or 50X (my two commonly-used magnifications.) I would not enjoy smaller exit pupils. I spend most of my time on the line looking through my spotting scope (exit pupil size of 3.04 @ 27X,) or the general conditions. When I finally make my wind call, I need to quickly transition to my riflescope and get the shot off. An even smaller exit pupil would make that more difficult.


Mr. Beckstrand also makes allusion to the fact looking through a quality riflescope for hours on end (as he says snipers do, but I have no clue, so I’ll take him at his word,) does not cause them to get headaches. That I can understand, lousy optics will strain your eye and can lead to headaches. But I would think that having a very small exit pupil as he recommends, would cause some strain on the shooter looking through that scope. A bigger exit pupil allows you to relax a little bit for the long haul. But again, I’m not a sniper, never have been and never want to be. Besides, I’m way too old.


Since this magazine is for snipers, the magnifications he discusses are 25X and under and several of his comments and statements do not apply or are iffy when we get into 40X and above.


All in all, once you get through the massive self-contradiction with respect to the amount of light, the article is probably ok for snipers, but falls short for long-range competition with high magnification scopes.


You still owe me $9.73, rifleman700.

Oh, and BTW, I didn't see anything about "commonly repeated light transmission theories," but I may look again.
 
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I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here; either teach us something new or ask for clarification.

As I explained in the other thread is which you posted the exact same message, I haven't a clue why anyone would blow a gasket about the information found at the link you posted. In fact, I would be surprised if anyone at all here would find this to be news to them.

Your earlier post about the seriously flawed article simply means you were wrong then. Your recent posts suggests to me this is something new to you.

It's just not new to most everybody else here.

You still owe me $9.73, rifleman700. What are my chances of ever collecting?
 
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Stumbled across this today on Optics Planet. Very short and to the point. Comment on tube size I am sure will cause some to blow a gasket.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/h...pe-objective-lens-size-and-tube-diameter.html

Thanks for posting, it was an interesting read...not exactly sure what part was supposed to make me blow a gasket either......that generally has to involve rum, a beach and Mexican girls {well, these days anyway}!!!!!

What are my chances of ever collecting?

About the same as me ending up on a beach with rum and Mexican girls!!!! Wifey would kill me if she knew I was writing about it....I aint the one that owes you...just sayin'
 
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here; either teach us something new or ask for clarification.

As I explained in the other thread is which you posted the exact same message, I haven't a clue why anyone would blow a gasket about the information found at the link you posted. In fact, I would be surprised if anyone at all here would find this to be news to them.

Your earlier post about the seriously flawed article simply means you were wrong then. Your recent posts suggests to me this is something new to you.

It's just not new to most everybody else here.

You still owe me $9.73, rifleman700. What are my chances of ever collecting?

The Optics Planet article contradicts everything you have posted about objective size having anything to do with light transmission. Objective size determines exit pupil size only and is only useful at the higher magnifications.
 
Aren't scope objective lenses light transmission the same as camera lenses?

A scope's 50mm objective lens with a 7" (~180mm) focal length (an f/3.6 camera lens) puts the same amount of light at its first image plain as a scope with 36mm objective lens and a 5" (~128mm) focal length (another f/3.6 camera lens) puts on its first image plane. If both scopes have the same ocular (eyepiece) and erector lenses with a combined focal length of 1/2" (~12.5mm), the scope with a 50mm objective lens is 14X magnification and the other 36mm scope is 10X.

Both put the same amount of light at their first and second image planes and have exit pupils about 3.6mm. Target images seen will have the same brightness.
 

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