Question on centerfire barrel seasoning

[Kenneth66]

If you are trying out different loads , factory ammo , does switching from one brand to another , Federal to Wichester for example , does it require a group or two for barrel to season to the change ?
Or should a barrel be cleaned before changing manufacturers ?
Or does it matter ? Thanks , Kenneth

 

[hogpatrol]

Factory rifle? Action type? New, old? What caliber? Custom barrel? What discipline, target or hunting? Generally speaking, there are multiple answers to our question, i.e. Yes, No, and Maybe.

 

[dcali]

"Does it matter?" If your'e shooting benchrest, maybe - try it and see. Otherwise, no.

 

[mikecr]

I'd clean the the bore and refoul with any powder change. It's different fouling.

 

[Kenneth66]

Was asking , to try and sort out the cause of extreme fliers . Would get three in a almost touching cluster and then one would go as much as two inches high or two low .
I know factory stuff can be varying , but that much ?
Kenneth

 

[MagnumManiac]

Fliers are caused by many factors, most are shooter induced. Not trying to say you are a poor shot, but any change in hold can influence POI, even off a bench or bi-pod. A perfect example to see the difference, attach a sling, shoot a group from sitting with a loose sling, then shoot a group with a tight sling, the group may walk quite a bit across the target, or even end up spraying all over the target.

Most fliers are caused by barrel harmonics being influenced by poor bedding.
Not all fliers are caused by ammunition, it can be caused by many factors, such as poor trigger control, firing pin lagging on some shots, weak firing pin spring, etc etc.

Cheers.

 

[Richard Coody]

You should always clean when you change powders or even bullets. Too much information out.there for the negative results of not doing so.

What most call flyers are in the statistical group for that rifle and load.

An experienced shooter knows when he pulls a shot. Now that is a flyer.

When you feel good about the shot and it goes awry that is a part of the real rifle group.

Shoot a 20 or 25 shot group and you begin to see the statistical size of.your.group.

Just because you can occasionally put together a half in group does not mean you have a half inch rifle or load

 

[Bart B.]

I never broke in or seasoned a barrel. All were good ones starting with the first shot fired.

Never worked up a match rifle load save once for a new bullet no data was for because it had not yet been offered for retail sale. Everything shot as accurate as the best marksman could by using the same loads they did.

Clean the barrel if a different powder will be used. Otherwise, first few with different powder may not be super accurate.

 

[mikecr]

Never worked up a load huh? They all shoot their best with the same loads?

 

[hogpatrol]

 

[T-shooter]

I shot this group of 5 shots with a freshly decoppered clean cold barrel with no fouling shot. The 1st shot was low and the rest were withing 1/2" at 215 yards. Funny, after I started feeling good, the groups got larger up to 1/2 MOA or a little over as I shot more and it wasn't due to barrel heat. I noticed that with this rifle, it starts shooting noticeably worse after about 250 rounds and needs the copper removed.

 

[Bart B.]

Never worked up a load huh? They all shoot their best with the same loads?

Yes.

In my opinion based on my observations for my objectives, conditions and standards.

I'm different than most regarding ammo accuracy. I use the biggest groups shot with a load. Smallest ones are most often luck cancelling out all the variables; rarely everything perfect and centered in its performance range. I want to see how much the variables add up to in all directions.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Yes.

In my opinion based on my observations for my objectives, conditions and standards.

I'm different than most regarding ammo accuracy. I use the biggest groups shot with a load. Smallest ones are most often luck cancelling out all the variables; rarely everything perfect and centered in its performance range. I want to see how much the variables add up to in all directions.

Hi Bart,

That's interesting, and from a statistical standpoint, you should get exactly the same results as those shooters who strive to produce the smallest groups during load development or tuning.

One method zeroes in what produces the smallest groups in a Bell Curve and then the means of generating them is chosen. Your method does the same, but you obviously eliminate choosing the practices that caused the larger groups.
The above statement isn't quite technically correct, but I thought it might be the best way to present my opinion without losing everyone or delving into complex mathematics that'll leave everyone confused.

I don't believe your method is better, but you did state it met your objectives and standards.

I've pretty much done the same as you several times in the past when lot testing RF ammo, and with well over 50,000 rds of data from my ballistic tunnel, I know and can prove your method will work based on analyses of that data.
In most cases it's not my preferred methodology but it's a valid means.

Landy

 

[dcali]

Load development for match rifles isn't necessary.

For 3 gun.

 

[Bart B.]

I've pretty much done the same as you several times in the past when lot testing RF ammo,

I too, have tested different lots of rimfire 22 ammo for my Anschutz 1911 prone rig. Lones Wigger said to shoot a box in one string to test everything about that lot. Accuracy and barrel fouling over 50 rounds.

Rimfire ammo used to be a lot more accurate. It changed for the worst in the early 1980's after an explosion at Eley's plant in their primer mix shop. All makes changed their primer mix adding more glass frit. Accuracy and barrel life got worse. The 100 yard prone records shot before then still stand. Tests at 1/3 MOA at 100 yards was common back then with Eley or RWS; now 2/3 MOA is as good as it gets. Barrel life was 50K rounds; now 30K.

In year 2000, I was issued a brick of Eley Tenex made in 1980 that was most accurate of all I tested. Produced the only 400-40X I ever shot.

A friend was able to get Russian made Olimp rimfire ammo imported in 1993 that the Soviet Bloc won gold with for decades. Tested about 1/3 MOA in their 100 meter range. It was also the best for a couple of years, then the Russian Mafia took over that plant to make only AK47 ammo.

 

[Bart B.]

Interesting. So you're saying by changing the rimfire primer mix back to what is was before the early 80's, rimfire ammo would be more accurate.
I never reloaded rimfire so I don't know what's involved, but could someone reload rimfire to be more accurate? Plus I'd think the Olympic teams would be trying to get any edge they could and some of those guys use Eley. Why would they use it if there was something better?

Maybe, but the Eley rep I discussed this with some years ago said the mixture would be more dangerous to produce; that's why it exploded in the first place.

No, you cannot reload rimfire. No firm will sell primer inserting tools to spread the liquid into case rims then let it harden to be used.

 

[js2013]

Maybe, but the Eley rep I discussed this with some years ago said the mixture would be more dangerous to produce; that's why it exploded in the first place.

No, you cannot reload rimfire. No firm will sell primer inserting tools to spread the liquid into case rims then let it harden to be used.

T

Maybe, but the Eley rep I discussed this with some years ago said the mixture would be more dangerous to produce; that's why it exploded in the first place.

No, you cannot reload rimfire. No firm will sell primer inserting tools to spread the liquid into case rims then let it harden to be used.

A quick search and it looks like rimfire can be reloaded. Now whether it can be made to be highly accurate is another story.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/8/18/reloading-22-long-rifle-a-new-option-for-competitors/

 

[Bart B.]

I didn't know that rimfire reload kit was available. Thanks for the education.

People in remote areas of Siberia crushed match heads then made a slurry to pack inside fired rimfire case rims. A cast lead bullet over a dash of black powder in the case after the slurry dried worked ok for small game. Same case could be indexed different 3 or 4 times.

Wanna shoot competition with those reloads?

 

[T-shooter]

I didn't know that rimfire reload kit was available. Thanks for the education.

People in remote areas of Siberia crushed match heads then made a slurry to pack inside fired rimfire case rims. A cast lead bullet over a dash of black powder in the case after the slurry dried worked ok for small game. Same case could be indexed different 3 or 4 times.

Wanna shoot competition with those reloads?

Is it possible to pull the factory .22LR bullet from a live round, resize the neck and change the powder charge and insert something like a Hornady 35g -40g Z-Max bullet?

 

[Bart B.]

Yes.

Safe? I don't think so. Rimfire case walls withstand the 24,000 psi peak pressure rimfire ammo has with very fast burning powders. Using another powder with a harder bullet equals something else. I would do that only in thick walled pressure test barrels to ensure its safety.