Tight brass..?

[Rsadams]

What happens if the brass is tight in a chamber specifically on a bolt gun? By tight I mean harder than normal to close the bolt... I have run into it with 1 or 2 shells of factory ammo out of an entire box that chambered easly. When I got home I measured them with a hornady headspace comparator and they were .004 longer than the rest of the box I didn't fire..

Can I fire them to get the brass for reloading??? Its Fed. gold medal match ammo. Or is this dangerous? As I said I seem to find 1 or 3 depending on ammo brand ( Fed or remington ) while doing a barrel break in.. After its done I will only be useing hand loads..
PS. Just to be clear its a tight chamber and the coal wasn't to long ,the headspace was to tight.
Thanks in advance..
Shawn

 

[Mtstalker]

If the bolt closes all the way i would shoot it. The charge and coal should be the same, those peices just wont stretch as much during the first firing. Now if the bolt wont close all the way i would pull them and see if you can use a bidy die on them.

 

[JRS]

You should have the actual chamber dimensions checked before firing factory loaded ammo in a "tight chamber" (tight neck chamber?). Safety first.

 

[Mtstalker]

You should have the actual chamber dimensions checked before firing factory loaded ammo in a "tight chamber" (tight neck chamber?). Safety first.

Good call.

 

[Texas10]

You don't say whether you're talking about a factory gun, or a gun you or someone else assembled with the headspace possibly below spec.

If the latter, you might consider moving the barrel forward a few thousandths to give a little more headspace. Otherwise you might have trouble getting your FL sizing dies adjusted down far enough to bump the shoulder back on your fire formed brass. When your die bottoms out against the shell holder, and you're not able to move the shoulder, thats a possible sign your headspace is too short.

If a factory barrel and the gun is still under warranty, you might return it and have the headspace reset to SAMMI specs.

Generally speaking, factories set chambers to slightly over minimum SAMMI specs so that factory ammo, made to SAMMI specs will always fit. In practice it doesn't always work that way, so you might have some tight fitting off the shelf ammo in your factory gun, as you are experiencing.

Determining what exactly is causing the issue is important. You can do this yourself by purchasing or renting a Go Gage for your chambering and see if the bolt closes easily on the gage. Then put a layer or two of Scotch tape on the head of the go gage and see if the bolt still closes easily. This way you can determine exactly what the headspace dimension is set to by using your headspace comparator gage.

 

[hrlincoln]

...I measured them with a hornady headspace comparator and they were .004 longer than the rest of the box I didn't fire..

PS. Just to be clear its a tight chamber and the coal wasn't to long ,the headspace was to tight.
Thanks in advance..
Shawn

If your fired brass is measuring .004 longer (from the base/head to some point on the shoulder) than an unfired factory round (manufactured to SAAMI specs), then headspace is not too tight. What's the basis for your statement, "just to be clear it's a tight chamber?"

 

[T-shooter]

What happens if the brass is tight in a chamber specifically on a bolt gun? By tight I mean harder than normal to close the bolt... I have run into it with 1 or 2 shells of factory ammo out of an entire box that chambered easly. When I got home I measured them with a hornady headspace comparator and they were .004 longer than the rest of the box I didn't fire..

Can I fire them to get the brass for reloading??? Its Fed. gold medal match ammo. Or is this dangerous? As I said I seem to find 1 or 3 depending on ammo brand ( Fed or remington ) while doing a barrel break in.. After its done I will only be useing hand loads..
PS. Just to be clear its a tight chamber and the coal wasn't to long ,the headspace was to tight.
Thanks in advance..
Shawn

Probably the cases weren't sized correctly from the base to the shoulder. If the bolt closes on this, it probably won't matter. Worse could be the neck is too long and closing the bolt will crimp the bullet. This could cause overpressure. If it were me, I'd pull the bullets with a collet puller, save the powder and resize the cases without the decapping pin in the die. Then check the length and reload them. It's always better to be safe. Also, Federal brass usually has some nasty burrs inside where the flash hole was punched.

 

[Rsadams]

Sorry I try to get everything in and always leave something out..
The gun is a factory savage heavy barrel, so it's set to min. headspace.

The dies can easly be set up to push the shoulder back to factory specs and way beyond its backed out still to bump the brass .002 which chambers way easy I already checked , and 99% of factory chamber normally..I was just finding some factory that was way longer than most.. Maybe 2 in a box of 20.

Useing the hornady headspace comparator I measured the fed. gold medal at
1.621 and when fired at 1.623 but the one that was tight was 1.625 before fireing. It would chamber but required a little bit of extra force than the rest.

It left NO marks on the brass or bullet. Factory remington was 1.623 before fireing and about the same after. With NO extraction problems on any ammo..

So I set the die up to push it back to 1.621 like the factory federal and they all easly chamber as did the factory ammo.

The accuracy was outstanding, shooting a three shot group at the end of 0.44 and thats becouse I pulled the first shot the other 2 were in the same hole.. Doing the barrel break in right now but could wait any longer to see.

 

[Rsadams]

If your fired brass is measuring .004 longer (from the base/head to some point on the shoulder) than an unfired factory round (manufactured to SAAMI specs), then headspace is not too tight. What's the basis for your statement, "just to be clear it's a tight chamber?"

No, the round that was tight was .004 longer on a headspace comparator than the rest,, it was 1.625 and the rest of the ammo was 1.621 before fireing.. Not after fireing.. Fired brass is 1.623...
I may not exactly know what tight chamber means then..lol It's not a tight neck chamber its just a tight headspace chamber..

 

[T-shooter]

Sorry I try to get everything in and always leave something out..
The gun is a factory savage heavy barrel, so it's set to min. headspace.

The dies can easly be set up to push the shoulder back to factory specs and way beyond its backed out still to bump the brass .002 which chambers way easy I already checked , and 99% of factory chamber normally..I was just finding some factory that was way longer than most.. Maybe 2 in a box of 20.

Useing the hornady headspace comparator I measured the fed. gold medal at
1.621 and when fired at 1.623 but the one that was tight was 1.625 before fireing. It would chamber but required a little bit of extra force than the rest.

It left NO marks on the brass or bullet. Factory remington was 1.623 before fireing and about the same after. With NO extraction problems on any ammo..

So I set the die up to push it back to 1.621 like the factory federal and they all easly chamber as did the factory ammo.

The accuracy was outstanding, shooting a three shot group at the end of 0.44 and thats becouse I pulled the first shot the other 2 were in the same hole.. Doing the barrel break in right now but could wait any longer to see.

Sounds like a .308. The Hornady tools can read different. For a .308, the inner diameter needs to be .400" with a sharp edge. Any chamfer will change the readings. Plus because of this you can't directly compare against another set of Hornady tools. As far as reloading, I use a bullet of the same type/lot and measure it inside the chamber. Then measure the same bullet in the Hornady tool (with bullet insert) and use that to set the overall length measuring each tone to .001". My .308 Savage likes .025" jump with everything I've tried so far. 3 shot groups of .44" is awesome for a brand new rifle with factory ammo. Mine liked either Hornady 168g Z-Max or PPU 168 grain Match. Both would average about 3/4". The light weight and faster rounds like the 149 grain @ 2,900 fps shot a pattern, not a group.

 

[geraldgee]

The way I read your last post, I gather that you resized loaded ammo. With the volatile properties of primers, I would caution against that. There are horror stories of ammo discharging while being resized. Please exercise all due caution.

 

[Rsadams]

Probably the cases weren't sized correctly from the base to the shoulder. If the bolt closes on this, it probably won't matter. Worse could be the neck is too long and closing the bolt will crimp the bullet. This could cause overpressure. If it were me, I'd pull the bullets with a collet puller, save the powder and resize the cases without the decapping pin in the die. Then check the length and reload them. It's always better to be safe. Also, Federal brass usually has some nasty burrs inside where the flash hole was punched.

Sounds like a .308. The Hornady tools can read different. For a .308, the inner diameter needs to be .400" with a sharp edge. Any chamfer will change the readings. Plus because of this you can't directly compare against another set of Hornady tools. As far as reloading, I use a bullet of the same type/lot and measure it inside the chamber. Then measure the same bullet in the Hornady tool (with bullet insert) and use that to set the overall length measuring each tone to .001". My .308 Savage likes .025" jump with everything I've tried so far. 3 shot groups of .44" is awesome for a brand new rifle with factory ammo. Mine liked either Hornady 168g Z-Max or PPU 168 grain Match. Both would average about 3/4". The light weight and faster rounds like the 149 grain @ 2,900 fps shot a pattern, not a group.

Mine hated remington 150s...lol.. I think the factory ammo iam finding is just sized a bit big.. I just never ran into it with my factory remington hunting rifles.. This gun is a 10t tactical and not a hunting rifle though..

 

[Rsadams]

The way I read your last post, I gather that you resized loaded ammo. With the volatile properties of primers, I would caution against that. There are horror stories of ammo discharging while being resized. Please exercise all due caution.

No not resizeing factory ammo just measuring it before and after fireing.. Just trying to get it all in in one post.. I was trying to answer the question on if the die would adjust enough... I would never try and resize a loaded cartridge... That just sounds scary..lol

 

[hrlincoln]

No, the round that was tight was .004 longer on a headspace comparator than the rest,, it was 1.625 and the rest of the ammo was 1.621 before fireing.. Not after fireing.. Fired brass is 1.623...
I may not exactly know what tight chamber means then..lol It's not a tight neck chamber its just a tight headspace chamber..

Got'cha....I misunderstood your original post

 

[dcali]

If you fire the tight ones, you risk getting your bolt stuck. If it's just a single box of ammo, pull the bullets and reload. (Or save them for another rifle - those things aren't cheap). Also, get the headspace fixed if you want to shoot factory ammo. It's smart to get it fixed even if you don't plan on it.

 

[T-shooter]

No not resizeing factory ammo just measuring it before and after fireing.. Just trying to get it all in in one post.. I was trying to answer the question on if the die would adjust enough... I would never try and resize a loaded cartridge... That just sounds scary..lol

Resizing a loaded case (just the primer) isn't that bad if you are careful. There is nothing in the case except the primer. Normally, it take an impact to set one off. In my Lee press. If one did go off with the die inside, the pressure would be vented out the bottom and not try to burst the case. Still, I always were safety glasses when working with primers and any time popping out live primers (slow and easy) or resizing a case with one installed (nothing touches the primer if you remove the decapping pin from your die), and I wear hearing protection. Probably the worst that could happen if one went off is I'd have to change my shorts. The hole in the press ram is where the removed primers drop out of so would vent all the pressure and primer casing and on my press, it's pointed away from me. Still, never do anything that you think is unsafe.

 

[Rsadams]

If you fire the tight ones, you risk getting your bolt stuck. If it's just a single box of ammo, pull the bullets and reload. (Or save them for another rifle - those things aren't cheap). Also, get the headspace fixed if you want to shoot factory ammo. It's smart to get it fixed even if you don't plan on it.

I think what iam finding is out of spec factory rounds.. The rest of the box functions fine,, the one round unfired was .004 longer than the rest from the shoulder to the head when checked with a headspace comparator than the rest , the rest were 1.621 and the tight round was 1.625 .. Should there be that much slop in a chamber? That means all rounds would grow .004 instead of the .002 like the normal ones did..

There was no problem extracting and no marks on any brass including the long one , I ejected It and compared it to the other 6 I didn't fire... There's just a couple that were tight.. The accuracy was awsome.

 

[Rsadams]

Ok I went and measured again and now they are different.. Of course..lol... But still , my FIRED brass is 1.624 and the 2 tight rounds that are UNFIRED are 1.625 and 1.626.. The 1.626 is of course tighter, the bolt closes ,but not as easy as the other 5 unfired which are fine...

I just went and chambered the 1.626 round in an old Remington 788 .308 and it chambered with only a very slight resistance.. Hardly noticeable.. So maybe the chambers in the savage is out of spec? The chamber of the old Remington seems sloppy though..I am lost..

 

[dcali]

Have you checked your chamber headspace with go/nogo gages?

 

[Rsadams]

.. Should there be that much slop in a chamber?
.. So maybe the chambers in the savage is out of spec?

The chamber in your Savage is just fine...it's manufactured to SAAMI specs. The Federal Gold Medal Match is also manufactured to SAAMI specs. BUT...for any specs, there are tolerances involved. Any two Savages coming off the line may be slightly different dimensionally due to manufacturing processes and yet still be within SAAMI specs. Same with factory ammunition. You're on the right track...1.624 is what brass fired in your Savage measures. Set your sizing die to bump the shoulder accordingly. Keep the bolt lug recesses clean and bolt lug faces greased

.308 Winchester is on page 110

http://saami.org/specifications_and...ns/download/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf#page=13

Yes I just talked to a friend and he laughed and said the same.. He's been a trainer for 20 years.. Iam not going to be shooting factory anyway and I threw a couple of dummy rounds that are sized for my old .308. At 1.623 and they were fine ... I think it's just not a sloppy chamber so it will be fine..

Thanks everyone for your time.. This is my first precision rifle and its just tight compared to a hunting rifle... I really apreceate the replies.. Everything is a learning curve.. Makes me appreciate what some of you have to go through for your super high dollar high accuracy rifles... Just when you think people are wasting time you realize why it takes so much to shoot well..