Strange way to hold a rifle

[jaybray]

Shot these four groups today with the 2 groups on the left holding the forend with my left arm and applying downward pressure with the full weight of my left arm and light pressure with my right thumb on the tang. The 2 groups to the right are free recoil. In the rifle balance thread I figured I had it all figured out after I balanced this gun and it shot a few nice groups. Well I was wrong again. No matter what I do I can not get any consistency shooting free recoil and with this particular rifle I quit. Shoot three nice ones then next time all over the place. I have tried it all from different bag fills to different rests and rear bags and always make sure the front rest is inline with the rear bag. Tracking is also good. Yes I am using wind flags now and will never go to the range again without them. Ever. I also fired three 5 shot groups yesterday holding the forend with downward pressure with the same results. I think the problem with shooting free recoil in my gun is it is torqueing in the bags and throwing shots. Why it shoots good and then doesn't when shooting free recoil is beyond me. Holding the forend with downward pressure with the left arm is hands down the most repeatable way and shoots the smallest consistent groups in both my 8 twist 6 brs as I have discovered this week. I will also say that holding the forend without applying downward pressure does not shoot near as good as when the downward pressure applied. All five shot groups at 250 yards. 6br 8 twist 36x sightron and 108 Bergers. Not posting this to show off groups but to show the difference in my particular rifle. Strange way to hold a rifle but it works well.

 

[dkhunt14]

Every rifle can be different. They are like a women and some want to be held differently. Matt

 

[joshb]

What ever suits you. I whisper sweet nothings into her ear. More to calm me down than the gun.

 

[TAJ45]

I can't quite visualize how you are using your left arm to hold down the forearm. You sound plenty savvy enough not to be mashing the bbl and changing harmonics. How are you doing g it? I would think you have checked everything for tightness.

 

[jaybray]

What I am doing is as the gun is sitting in my bald eagle rest and on the rear bag, I am grabbing on to the forend with my left hand using all my fingers and thumb and relaxing my arm so the full weight of my arm is pulling down on the forend and hold it there. Then I use the elevation adjustment screw to bring the crosshair dead center of the aiming point at the same time as I am pulling down. If I let go of the rifle then the crosshairs rise up probably quarter inch or so above the target at 250 yards . Grab on again and using the same downward pressure then im back on target. Strange process but it works. Once I got the hang of it it was quick and easy. When I fire a round I also use light thumb pressure on the tang and the butt is just barely touching my shoulder so the gun still free recoils back. I tried holding on with no downward force and the groups opened up. The downward applied force on the forend must stop any torqueing action on my gun and allows it to go straight back. Yes I have checked everything for tightness in my set up. Also seems pretty consistent as I shot lots of 5 shot groups this week that worked out well at 250 yards.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would like to see a picture of your rifle on the front rest and rear bag, in the same position as it would be in when being shot. Shooting free recoil has stringent stock design, rifle balance, trigger pull weight, and bag requirements, also what is your trigger pull weight?

 

[jaybray]

jewel br trigger set at I think 1.5 oz. Will fire if I look at it wrong.

 

[jaybray]

It is the Richard franklin low rider stock with the rails on the bottom. Bat sv action, Krieger barrel with br trigger. Gun returns pretty much right on target after shooting it free recoil when I slide it forward. Inconsistent groups though. I also slide that rubber matt off when im shooting so everything is on the concrete.

 

[Richard Coody]

Do you have a little talc on your bags?

Does the rifle track well in free recoil or is the forearm jumping around?

have you checked the balance point on your rifle?

Have you tried different placement of.the rear bag?

Are you only touching the trigger in free recoil or are you using cheek or shoulder pressure?

In the end it is what works for you

 

[jpx2rk]

Sounds like a pressure point on the action/barrel if you have to pull down on the fore end of the stock and light pressure on tang to get consistent groups.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Check out Bob Pastor on youtube shooting 1000yds from the bench. This is how he shoots all the time.....And if you know Bob and how much winning he has done shooting this way you definitely know there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat....

 

[jaybray]

Do you have a little talc on your bags?

Does the rifle track well in free recoil or is the forearm jumping around?

have you checked the balance point on your rifle?

Have you tried different placement of.the rear bag?

Are you only touching the trigger in free recoil or are you using cheek or shoulder pressure?

In the end it is what works for you

I have tried it all. No cheek pressure with the butt just touching the shoulder and leaving a half inch or so space. I use used dryer sheets on the rear bag and front rest.

 

[jaybray]

Sounds like a pressure point on the action/barrel if you have to pull down on the fore end of the stock and light pressure on tang to get consistent groups.

Barrel is free floated all the way back to the action. Could be something touching somewhere I guess.

 

[jaybray]

One thing I wondered about that could be causing issues was the guy that built this thing used this piece of black ebony in behind the tang area for what I believe acts as a recoil lug. Could this be why it acts like a son of a gun shootin free recoil? This sv action is round and smooth on the bottom. No recess cut in the bottom to act as a recoil lug. Should the tang area be like this??

 

[jaybray]

Fired a few more five shot groups today at 250 yards. First three groups from left to right are holding on to the forend with downward pressure as described previously. Three shot group at the far right was shot free recoil with only trigger finger touching. The group with the insane verticle was caused from tightening the ears on the front rest fairly tight to see how that would work when holding on to the forend. Grim. Seems very sensitive in regards to front bag ear tension. Seems setting the ears with very light tension is what works best when holding on. When holding on I still let the gun free recoil straight back into my shoulder. Probably just going to keep shooting it holding the forend and not worry about free recoil. You never know, holding the forend might just tighten up someone elses groups also.

 

[jaybray]

 

[swd]

One thing I wondered about that could be causing issues was the guy that built this thing used this piece of black ebony in behind the tang area for what I believe acts as a recoil lug. Could this be why it acts like a son of a gun shootin free recoil? This sv action is round and smooth on the bottom. No recess cut in the bottom to act as a recoil lug. Should the tang area be like this??

Looks like a Remington inlet stock filled in for the target tang Bat. It wouldn't affect free recoil shooting. He did a nice job.

 

[jaybray]

Thanks. Good to know.

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that I know the source of your problem. The area on the toe of your buttstock that is set up to interface with your rear bag has the butt hanging down just in back of it, and the pistol grip hanging down at the front. Your bag appears to be a Protektor Doctor bag that is long with long ears. the back of the grip and where the butt hangs down have the bag sort of wedged in place with not enough room for the rifle to slid on the bag without contact being made in the aforementioned areas. This is the equivalent of someone having his front sling swivel in contact with the front of his front bag. It will cause thrown shots all day long. If you borrow a shorter rear bag, that does not come hear to the contact areas that I have mentioned I believe that your groups will become much better. Bottom line before during and after firing no part of the stock should touch any part of the rear bag beyond the inside of the ears and the space between them. If something is touching at the back when you start is may be holding the butt slightly out of the track that it falls into when it starts to the rear, and if some part of the stock runs into the front of the bag, or even the top of the base part during recoil it can cause thrown shots. In short, IMO you need a shorter (front to back) bag. Also, if your bag slides on the concrete bench this is totally unacceptable from an accuracy point of view. I have tried many things for this, and all have fallen short of the mark for one reason or the other, except one thing, open mesh sanding screen in full sheets about 150 grit minimum. I believe that Home Depot sells some. IMO it would be better to shoot off of the rubber mat than to have either your front rest or rear bag move while you are shooting.

 

[jaybray]

Very good information from someone who has obviously been there done that. Thanks. When I ordered the protector bag I asked for the short ears but got sent the one with the long ones. I am pretty sure the pistol grip is not hitting the rear bag on recoil because I make sure it is as far forward from the rear bag as possible. Also when I shoot free recoil the gun returns to battery very well which it would not if it disturbed the rear bag on recoil. But you are correct that the rear part of the stock that hangs down always is brushing on the rear bag so when fired it would make contact every time it slides back. Maybe that's the problem. Also great advice on the open mesh sanding screen. I will pick some up tomorrow and shoot off of it next weekend. You know maybe the front rest or rear bag does move a tiny little bit when shot on that concrete. Maybe the down pressure and holding the forend prevents the set up from moving. Ill try free recoil again next weekend and report back using the screen and maybe try a group off the rubber mat. Also I do have another edge wood bag that is guaranteed not to touch anything and I will try it also.