45-70 Loads for 1895 Marlin?

[hoz53]

I use 3031.

I too initially found that the brass was being way over sized. Try backing off the die some, shoot for about .002 neck tension and see if they will still cycle if they are not sized to the bottom. I'm betting they will. This is not a high pressure case. Just make sure you run them in a crimp die if you are putting them in a tubular magazine.

Lots of BP shooters don't resize at all. They slip fit the cast or patched bullets into the fired cases on top of cork, paper or plastic spacers with some compression on the powder.

OK I have some 3031 on the way. Im setting my dies up today so ill see what they do. I got some starline brass yesterday and Im checking into annealing some of it as it seems thats recommended. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

I went into shooting my highwall like a typical OCD F cass shooter. I eventually got over most of that (less so with my Sharps and paper patching, casting and the Holy Black). What I learned is that loading for these big straight walled cases is very different to modern bottleneck rounds. The problem with smokeless powder is that the case it too darned big. This case was designed to be filled to the brim with black. The challenge lies in finding a powder that will give you a reasonable fill and still burn well.

I tried Varget because well, I always have it. You can't get enough in there to keep the pressure up, there is unburned powder in the barrel after you shoot. Kind of like trying to load Retumbo in a 308.

I tried Rx7, 3031, and several others. When I mounted the Z3 I figured out what I wanted. I minute of deer load with a powder that would give enough velocity that would give me a ballistic curve that would get me to 200 yards from a 100 yard zero in 2 mils, with the 405 that corresponds to 1800FPS MV. It's still carrying plenty of energy out that far to kill deer or hogs or anything else really.

These big bullets fall like a stone, even at 200 yards you are getting a looping trajectory (it drops 15 inches from 100 to 200 yards) I found a setup that works for me.

I have not been able to find the remington 405 anywhere. Alot of good info in your post. Thanks

 

[mgunderson]

Try reading Paul Matthews (forty years with the 4570). It is a fun and entertaining book. I reread it every few years and still laugh out loud.

Tried a few super class 3 loads in my Browning and left snot bubbles on the stock.

 

[M-61]

Quote from joshb:
"I have a question. What's the barrel life on a 45-70?"
From hoz53 "...9451 rounds...."

I have no reason to dispute that number at all. At ¼ that number I'd be far more concerned about my shoulder! I have an SBL and although I got hooked on finding the most accurate load I could & it was punishing doing so. A nice rifle on my ATV, nice to take a break from benchrest, but I could not imagine firing 2500 rounds through it. Never figured out why I can't just buy a rifle and be happy with how it shoots out of the box.

 

[hoz53]

Try reading Paul Matthews (forty years with the 4570). It is a fun and entertaining book. I reread it every few years and still laugh out loud.

Tried a few super class 3 loads in my Browning and left snot bubbles on the stock.

Ill try and find the book. Sounds like a good read. "snot bubbles" must be a kicker--hope tHe barrel is working out. Thanks

 

[XTR]

He isn't joking. Mathews was a FREAK about hot loads in the 45-70. His paper patched loads for the Ruger #1 will make you slobber, or seperated corneas. Unless you want to use it on something that will come over and stomp you into a muddy puddle or eat you it's totally over the top.

The Reniubgton 405s are a once every few yrs run. I think I got 500 or a 1000 when they did a run 5 yrs ago or so.

Try loading the Hornady 350 round nose. I had a load for that one at one point.

Get that Lyman reloading manual out. It's got some good info in it.

 

[Road_Clam]

I load 45-70 a bit lighter for usage in my SA 1884 TD. I'm loading Starline brass, 405 rnfp's with 28 gr of 4198 and I'm at about 1230 fps. I too have had good consistent experiences with SL brass.

 

[ireload2]

There are considerable differences in 45-70 reloading dies.
1. My original RCBS dies from 1972 have a very long reduced diameter neck section about 3/4" long. One box of my old cases from 1972 has been reloaded and fired many times with that die set and 4 of the 20 cases cracked about 1" above the rim.
2. A later 1980s RCBS die set is larger inside and the neck section is about 5/8" long.
3. A Redding die set has what appears to be neck inside and that neck is only 1/2" long leaving the rest of the case much larger.
4. A Lee die set is dimensioned much like #1 above.
5. A Redding neck die has a short 1/2" neck and the rest of the case is not touched when sized

I use 3031.

I too initially found that the brass was being way over sized. Try backing off the die some, shoot for about .002 neck tension and see if they will still cycle if they are not sized to the bottom. I'm betting they will. This is not a high pressure case. Just make sure you run them in a crimp die if you are putting them in a tubular magazine.

Lots of BP shooters don't resize at all. They slip fit the cast or patched bullets into the fired cases on top of cork, paper or plastic spacers with some compression on the powder.

 

[Shaggy357]

Full length sizing a straight wall case gives you a Coke bottle effect. )( The longer the case, the more visible it is to the eye. Years ago I was told this was due to spring-back and the softening from annealing in the brass manufacturing process. The guy who explained it to me was an old timer gun smith and being a dumb kid in his 20s, I wasn't smart enough to pay attention and learn all I could have from him. The things I have taken away from our visits back then have lasted to this day.

He told me that my straight wall brass that was full length sized would crack lengthwise in about 5 firings. He was right on. 357, 38, and even 9mm all did that. I learned to size only enough to hold the bullet and now rarely get the full length cracking. Some cracking at the mouth from work hardening in the crimp area still show up. He also told me to keep my reloads separated for each gun. Firing brass in the same gun, and limiting the sizing to chamber fit and bullet hold, would extend the life of the brass for reloading. Again very accurate information.

Some other things I remember from him: G96 gun cleaner/lubricator is great stuff. I still buy it when I can find it. Almost has the after-shave appeal as Hoppe's #9. Two gas seals in the recess on the Remington Model 1100 work better than 1, and will last longer. Both of my 1100s have two gas seals. One last note for today, 2 3/4" shot shells will shoot just as fast and just as far as 3" shells. They just have less shot and take less powder to do it. If you are aiming in the right place when the shot goes off, the pattern will be there. My best 60 yard goose loads were loaded in Win AA hulls. That was back in the day before required steel shot and when 3" shells cost $2-3 a box more than 2 3/4". These loads work great on turkeys too...

Have a good weekend.

 

[hoz53]

Quote from joshb:
"I have a question. What's the barrel life on a 45-70?"
From hoz53 "...9451 rounds...."

I have no reason to dispute that number at all. At ¼ that number I'd be far more concerned about my shoulder! I have an SBL and although I got hooked on finding the most accurate load I could & it was punishing doing so. A nice rifle on my ATV, nice to take a break from benchrest, but I could not imagine firing 2500 rounds through it. Never figured out why I can't just buy a rifle and be happy with how it shoots out of the box.

Actually I just made it up but I just think not many people shoot a 45/70 enough to wear out the barrel. I gotta check out that barrel life formula somewhere on the site.

 

[hoz53]

Full length sizing a straight wall case gives you a Coke bottle effect. )( The longer the case, the more visible it is to the eye. Years ago I was told this was due to spring-back and the softening from annealing in the brass manufacturing process. The guy who explained it to me was an old timer gun smith and being a dumb kid in his 20s, I wasn't smart enough to pay attention and learn all I could have from him. The things I have taken away from our visits back then have lasted to this day.

He told me that my straight wall brass that was full length sized would crack lengthwise in about 5 firings. He was right on. 357, 38, and even 9mm all did that. I learned to size only enough to hold the bullet and now rarely get the full length cracking. Some cracking at the mouth from work hardening in the crimp area still show up. He also told me to keep my reloads separated for each gun. Firing brass in the same gun, and limiting the sizing to chamber fit and bullet hold, would extend the life of the brass for reloading. Again very accurate information.

Some other things I remember from him: G96 gun cleaner/lubricator is great stuff. I still buy it when I can find it. Almost has the after-shave appeal as Hoppe's #9. Two gas seals in the recess on the Remington Model 1100 work better than 1, and will last longer. Both of my 1100s have two gas seals. One last note for today, 2 3/4" shot shells will shoot just as fast and just as far as 3" shells. They just have less shot and take less powder to do it. If you are aiming in the right place when the shot goes off, the pattern will be there. My best 60 yard goose loads were loaded in Win AA hulls. That was back in the day before required steel shot and when 3" shells cost $2-3 a box more than 2 3/4". These loads work great on turkeys too...

Have a good weekend.

thanks for that info

 

[hoz53]

There are considerable differences in 45-70 reloading dies.
1. My original RCBS dies from 1972 have a very long reduced diameter neck section about 3/4" long. One box of my old cases from 1972 has been reloaded and fired many times with that die set and 4 of the 20 cases cracked about 1" above the rim.
2. A later 1980s RCBS die set is larger inside and the neck section is about 5/8" long.
3. A Redding die set has what appears to be neck inside and that neck is only 1/2" long leaving the rest of the case much larger.
4. A Lee die set is dimensioned much like #1 above.
5. A Redding neck die has a short 1/2" neck and the rest of the case is not touched when sized

Thats interesting Im about to find out how my RCBS set sizes. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

He isn't joking. Mathews was a FREAK about hot loads in the 45-70. His paper patched loads for the Ruger #1 will make you slobber, or seperated corneas. Unless you want to use it on something that will come over and stomp you into a muddy puddle or eat you it's totally over the top.

The Reniubgton 405s are a once every few yrs run. I think I got 500 or a 1000 when they did a run 5 yrs ago or so.

Try loading the Hornady 350 round nose. I had a load for that one at one point.

Get that Lyman reloading manual out. It's got some good info in it.

Id like to load some hard kickers up to shoot but I have to be careful with my eyes these days. (more so than at 20) I got some sierra 300s and some hornady 325 FTX
3031 came today but wouldnt you know i forgot the shell holder. I dont have to buy shell holders for hardly anything these days as Ive got a collection and also a coax.
Ive been reading Ken Waters Pet Loads Book lately and theres some good 45/70 articles from 1974. Not much has changed except some of the new powders available. Seems like most guys still use the older proven powders. Why pay the price for VIT if theres no gain. Seems like Ill be testing alot. Hope my old body can hold up to it Thanks