I knew there was a reason I own three of these!!!
Which bullet is THE long range bullet for whitetail deer for the 7mm-08?
- Thread starter AROKHUNTER
- Start date
I knew there was a reason I own three of these!!!
Very good decision.
This is why you run a LRAB, ELD-X or Amax in the 7-08. All of these bullets will expand / fragment at much lower velocities than standard bullets. They also retain more velocity at longer ranges because of their design. They will work well past 400 yards.
Not many guys have enough confidence in the 7-08 to consider it adequate for the longer ranges. So many phenomenal bullets today but too many people just go to a magnum. Thats always the answer. "Even with a bad hit, it will kill anything !" I hear the same thing with people and the .243. Not enough gun for deer beyond 400 yards. I just think it's funny. People need to know there own personal limitations but that said, the gun WILL get it done.
Very well said. And let me add that most cannot shoot magnums with any kind of consistency at all and would be better off with a 7-08 or 243.
Most guys here I'm certain are proficient shooters but I feel they underestimate some cartridges. The 243, 260, 7-08 and 308 deserve more credit than they are given with today's bullets. I've done some very impressive stuff with some of them that I couldn't believe. Especially the 260.
This goes for shotguns too. I have a friend that says you shouldn't hunt with less then a 3.5 inch shell. I just laugh when he blast a bird on half and says "I need to try smaller shot."
Nick
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm mostly a 6 Dasher or .243 type for my hunting here. I don't enjoy shooting heavy recoil. That being said, a braked 7 Rem Mag is pretty tame to shoot.
The 3 bullets that I actually had in mind to use in the 7mm-08 at the longer ranges are the
Nosler LR Accubond 168 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion 1300 fps
Hornady ELD-X 162 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion 1600 fps
Hornady AMAX 162 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion NOT TESTED & NOT RECCOMENDED FOR HUNTING
This info is per the manufacturers website.
So, I have heard a lot more input on the 162 AMAX. I have read that the LR Accubonds tend to splatter and fragment and not penetrate well. I have not found much about the ELD-X.
The input here leads to the AMAX for the most part.
Someone suggested the 160 grain Accubond. Has anyone actually used the regular Accubond in a 7mm-08 on deer between 400-700 yards?
I have a Shilen 24 inch barrel varmint contour with a 1 in 9" twist. Will this barrel work for all of the above mentioned bullets?
Nosler LR Accubond 168 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion 1300 fps
Hornady ELD-X 162 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion 1600 fps
Hornady AMAX 162 grain --- Suggested minimum velocity for proper expansion NOT TESTED & NOT RECCOMENDED FOR HUNTING
This info is per the manufacturers website.
So, I have heard a lot more input on the 162 AMAX. I have read that the LR Accubonds tend to splatter and fragment and not penetrate well. I have not found much about the ELD-X.
The input here leads to the AMAX for the most part.
Someone suggested the 160 grain Accubond. Has anyone actually used the regular Accubond in a 7mm-08 on deer between 400-700 yards?
I have a Shilen 24 inch barrel varmint contour with a 1 in 9" twist. Will this barrel work for all of the above mentioned bullets?
I should have worded the "most shooters" comment better. It was in no way meant to point a finger at anybody on this site.
There are some great bullets out on the market today that give us the ability to shoot game at distances never seen before. I have actually put my 28 Nosler build on hold because my 7saum provides everything I need in a LR deer rifle.
That's my stand as well. Opinions vary. No bashing meant. People shoot whatever makes them comfortable and confident. This stuff is what works and has worked in my shooting experience. Ive read all the 7-08 and 243 stuff but I've also put alot of it to rest by contradicting alot of it. I love my 7 mag and 300/338 mags but typically never need them. Using the 7-08 in a short action platform will be easier than using a 284 in the same. You can finish with the same OAL due to a shorter case and have less bullet in the case. Allows for more case capacity and better ability to develop loads for. Savage allows for almost a 3.00 OAL cartridge in there DBMs. If you decide to go with the 7-08, I have some load data to pass on if your interested. I have some for the 7 mag as well. Give me a PM and I'll pass some on. Good luck.
It's a long tiresome controversial topic that's beat up over and over on many threads in forums. The cartridge/caliber choice thing. I've been in many and alot of heated discussions erupt from them. I'm not interested in that type of discussion. My decisions haven't always got approval by other shooters because I'm not a huge believer in magnums for most hunting or shooting. I was in years past but in recent years with all the new bullet development I don't feel the same. Most of my buddy's use them and we shoot together. They constantly try to pull me back into the magnum club. Recoil doesn't bother me and neither does the cost of loading them. I just shoot well enough and kill easy enough without them. Therefore, I'm content. I don't hunt in Africa or the biggest of bears. Moose are not on my list either. All else will tip over with a well placed non magnum bullet and until that changes, I'm staying where I'm at. My buds will stay where they are as well and we'll all be content.
The 162 amax is a match target bullet by design but works very well as a hunting bullet. The one thing to remember about an amax is that it works best between 2800 - 1400 fps roughly, depending on caliber. Where it struggles is on close shots where velocity is above 2800 fps. If the Berger VLD had this plastic tip it would be even a better bullet. The tip helps initiate disruption and the bullet fragments like a grenade.
I have been told by a reliable source that there are Hornady Engineers that hunt with the amax.
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Hard to beat an already great proven design by berger. Hornady needed that plastic design in the Amax and ELD and they keep improving upon it as far as ballistics. Bergers improvements come more as tunability as in there hybrid line. Sierra has taken Hornadys idea and doing well with it. At least IMO they are. I love the 168 TMK. It's taken my 308 beyond the great accuracy level it was at already. Match bullets DO perform very good on game but again range sure makes a difference.
Bullet expansion is important but it's not the only factor involved in a humane kill. What amount of penetration and energy dump will result with a bullet that expands at velocities remaining at 700 yards?
Add to that the inevitable probability of a less than optimum impact point due to all the variables found in long range shooting. Under optimum conditions a target can be hit but we're not talking about punching paper here. Come on, guys. Leave your egos at the door.
Add to that the inevitable probability of a less than optimum impact point due to all the variables found in long range shooting. Under optimum conditions a target can be hit but we're not talking about punching paper here. Come on, guys. Leave your egos at the door.
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I agree. Not sure I'd want and entrance velocity on anything deer size to be much less that 2000 fps and energy under 1200 ft lbs. I've killed deer with a 10 mm at 50 yards with alot less energy and velocity. I just have a minimum number I try to follow while shooting at longer ranges.
+1
There is a huge difference between what I would want on a paid trophy hunt and what will get the job done under different conditions.
What I have done in regards to caliber, cartridge and distance while culling deer I would not even think of under other circumstances. Yes the 7-08 can definitely kill deer at the distances your talking about and I wouldn't hesitate on a cull doe during a summer night with still air. On a 170" buck under less than perfect conditions there comes a point where I re evaluate.
The velocity range for the AMAX has been well documented with field testing on game animals. The person doing the testing did state that depending on the caliber the 1400 fps recommendation could vary.
The Nosler LRAB are very soft in the nose / ogive area and this is why their velocity window is 1300 fps on the low end. I have not seen any reports that I would call valid as to their performance on close up shots.
Most other bullet manufacturers set theirs minimums at 16-1800 fps which are probably a little conservative.
Berger lists theirs at 1600 fps but I have found by trimming the meplats they work below this lower limit just fine. This being said my sample number was very small unlike the sample number of the amax which is in the hundreds.
As far as 1200 ft lbs as a minimum then you are saying that most 44 magnum loads at PBR are not acceptable. If the bullet is still performing as designed then 1200 ft lbs is not an issue. I am sure their fps limit is based on the ft lbs / energy for that bullet design. The amax is a different story because it is a target bullet but like I said above there is plenty of documented evidence that it is a good hunting bullet.
IMO there are two types of bullets for hunting. One is solids or partition type bullets that plow through and rely on hydrostatic shock by opening a wide wound channel or two which are fragmenting / explosive type bullets that destroy flesh / vitals. The Partition to me is the best killing bullet I have ever used but its effective range is limited.
The Nosler LRAB are very soft in the nose / ogive area and this is why their velocity window is 1300 fps on the low end. I have not seen any reports that I would call valid as to their performance on close up shots.
Most other bullet manufacturers set theirs minimums at 16-1800 fps which are probably a little conservative.
Berger lists theirs at 1600 fps but I have found by trimming the meplats they work below this lower limit just fine. This being said my sample number was very small unlike the sample number of the amax which is in the hundreds.
As far as 1200 ft lbs as a minimum then you are saying that most 44 magnum loads at PBR are not acceptable. If the bullet is still performing as designed then 1200 ft lbs is not an issue. I am sure their fps limit is based on the ft lbs / energy for that bullet design. The amax is a different story because it is a target bullet but like I said above there is plenty of documented evidence that it is a good hunting bullet.
IMO there are two types of bullets for hunting. One is solids or partition type bullets that plow through and rely on hydrostatic shock by opening a wide wound channel or two which are fragmenting / explosive type bullets that destroy flesh / vitals. The Partition to me is the best killing bullet I have ever used but its effective range is limited.
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