How have E-targets changed wind calling

[Jay Christopherson]

I found the display of information about other users targets to be pretty minimally useful on the SMT display at Lodi. And I generally do like to keep a close eye on the spotters around me.

The problem, for me, was just that the display windows down below were too "noisy", reset too often (i.e., zoomed out from where I had them), and generally took too much time to absorb.

For me, it would be far more useful if I could pick two or three targets to tile with the main display somehow, instead of just having a band of small windows along the bottom.

 

[Ringostar]

I agree that if it is harder to read wind off the spotters the shooter has to read the wind based on other indicators. I actually never really watched the spotters on other peoples targets that close as a wind indicator. I realized I was missing something though the first time I went to nationals and noticed that a lot of top shooters do. I shot next to a competitor that took 11th overall in the world championships in FTR and the spotters where his main if not only wind indicator.

I know that some shooters will dial in their windage before starting sightsers. . Then hold mid 8 ring while shooting their sightseers, just to mess with anyone that watch for their spotter.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

You guys are so funny. "Arumpf, I'm great, I never look at any other spotter. That would make me a bad wind reader."

Too funny.

I remember the 2015 Nationals in Phoenix. At one point during the team matches, the entire line stopped shooting. It was utterly silent for 20+ minutes. This was right in the middle of a rifle match with hundreds of shooters and targets all up in the air, and not a rifle shot was heard.

When finally one person took a shot, you could HEAR, literally hear, the spotting scopes spinning on their tripods to look down the line at the result of THAT shot. After the target came back up, not a shot was heard for several more minutes.

We finally had to start shooting as time elapsed and it was nightmarish.

I love it! "I NEVER look at anyone else's spotter. That would mean I'm a lousy wind reader."

Most times, I pay no never mind to other targets when I'm calling, but I am aware of condition changes that may be coming down the target line.

And because I'm not an infallible wind caller like some people on this thread, when I do miss a call, it helps to diagnose the problem if I look at other spotters and notice a trend that we all might have missed.

 

[Bindi2]

I have been shooting on the Kongsberg ETs for six years now , they don't have any other targets on the screen other than yours so no help from other shooters you are truly on your own. Sink or swim. Another reason not to have a time delay.

 

[dkynoch]

I have been shooting on the Kongsberg ETs for six years now , they don't have any other targets on the screen other than yours so no help from other shooters you are truly on your own. Sink or swim. Another reason not to have a time delay.

Maybe this is the compromise no time delay but you can't see any more than your own target on the display?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I have been shooting on the Kongsberg ETs for six years now , they don't have any other targets on the screen other than yours so no help from other shooters you are truly on your own. Sink or swim. Another reason not to have a time delay.

If there's no time delay, you aren't shooting F-Class.

 

[JohnKielly]

You wouldn't need a delay if rules required the scorer to call the shot & the shooter to confirm it before the next counting shot is fired.

 

[Bindi2]

If there's no time delay, you aren't shooting F-Class.

I am shooting F Class. Australia does not use a time delay nor do we need one. If you want a time delay shoot Bisley style.

 

[XTR]

...Another reason not to have a time delay.

You do what you want in Oz.

Every time E targets comes up you get in here and start trying to sell the no wait option. There are more than a few out here shooting who don't want it that way.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Let's just change the way we shoot F-Class in the U.S. to facilitate the use of electronic targets...no, wait a second, how about implementing the novel concept of adapting the use of electronic targets so that it doesn't change the way we shoot F-Class in the U.S.? Yes, I think I like that idea better.

 

[Immike]

I once shot a Pdog at a big famous ranch that broke their record long shot by a lot. I didn't shoot it the way they do it and the boss man didn't think I did it right. I gently explained, look here MF, I set up the shot and splattered the little squirrel the way I know how! Lol
This has nothing to do with this thread but I've been dying to tell this story! Lmao.
As new as electronics are I don't think we know yet where we will gravitate with it. I'm gonna stay open minded for awhile to see where they go. The USA way is still seeking its way of doing it so I expect more changes as we go forward. Let's be patient, this thing is in its Hellen Keller stage of development.

 

[Bindi2]

You do what you want in Oz.

Every time E targets comes up you get in here and start trying to sell the no wait option. There are more than a few out here shooting who don't want it that way.

Australia has been using ETs longer than the USA. There are those here that think we should do as the USA does even when we develop it or adapt it. The International rules currently have no time delay why change it, why have little screens to watch what is going on next door, shooting is about how good you are at doing it without help from next door. Flags are for the ranges that have no trees, I also shoot on ranges where the forest comes right to the edge of the mounds making flags useless. Time delays in these two cases will do nothing but waste time not enhance the match. You can and will do as you want at home but you will want to change the International rules to mirror yours and that is the problem. As I said before if you want a time delay shoot a Bisley style match. Funnily enough in Bisley stlye you have a time you must fire under or lose the shot.
Yes I sell the no time delay having been using ETs for a number of years an can see the problems it will create which none of the time delay wanters can give a solution except say have another shot but wont say it is a convertible shot.

 

[500Stroker]

I am shooting F Class. Australia does not use a time delay nor do we need one. If you want a time delay shoot Bisley style.

I am with Bindi2 on this, you dont have to have a delay to have fun. Not all of us on this forum shot F-Class. Our club recently installed ET's with no delay, I think it is fair to say that the ET"s they put in have been a big success. Granted these are club matches and not sanctioned events. I personally prefer ET's and prefer no delay. Here's an example (ET no built in delay) of a recent 600 yard club match that I took part in, yes it was in the wind.
ET's, pits it doesn't matter you still need to read the wind it's just a different challenge.

 

[Erud]

Since the VAST majority of ranges in the US do not have electronic targets, for the sake of consistency, having a delay makes sense. With no delay, you can shoot at speeds that just are not possible with manual targets. All US NRA records up to this point have been shot on manual targets, with a real-live human being in the pits marking each shot. Now, I understand that shooting fast can sometimes help you, and other times hurt you, but if a really good shooter gets a perfect condition for 5 minutes while shooting on e-targets with no delay, he can get a lot more rounds out of the gun than on a pulled target. If he sets a national record in this situation, how would this new record be comparable to the previous one?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I am shooting F Class. Australia does not use a time delay nor do we need one. If you want a time delay shoot Bisley style.

Not without a delay you're not. It's not a matter of want.

I am with Bindi2 on this, you dont have to have a delay to have fun. Not all of us on this forum shot F-Class. Our club recently installed ET's with no delay, I think it is fair to say that the ET"s they put in have been a big success. Granted these are club matches and not sanctioned events. I personally prefer ET's and prefer no delay. Here's an example (ET no built in delay) of a recent 600 yard club match that I took part in, yes it was in the wind.
ET's, pits it doesn't matter you still need to read the wind it's just a different challenge.

I should have have said, if there's no delay, you're not shooting slow fire, high power rifle, which covers F-Class as well.

If you are shooting a "F-Class" or slow-fire match on an e-target without a delay, then again, you are not shooting F-Class or slow-fire high power rifle. You aren't even shooting benchrest because the e-target is not accurate enough. Period.

If you want to make up a match format (which it sounds like what you two are advocating, some sort of hybrid score/benchrest format) with no delay on an e-target, then great! Enjoy it and have fun. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not F-Class or slow fire high power, however much you want to debate it.

 

[Dos XX]

And just shoot it at a big black blob instead of at an official F Class target. Call it fast big black blob class?

 

[JohnKielly]

And just shoot it at a big black blob instead of at an official F Class target. Call it fast big black blob class?

Do you have big black blobs on your E Targets? In Australia, It's mandatory that they have standard ring faces on them - and yes, they generally last well when they're not pasted over.

 

[500Stroker]

Not without a delay you're not. It's not a matter of want.



I should have have said, if there's no delay, you're not shooting slow fire, high power rifle, which covers F-Class as well.

If you are shooting a "F-Class" or slow-fire match on an e-target without a delay, then again, you are not shooting F-Class or slow-fire high power rifle. You aren't even shooting benchrest because the e-target is not accurate enough. Period.

If you want to make up a match format (which it sounds like what you two are advocating, some sort of hybrid score/benchrest format) with no delay on an e-target, then great! Enjoy it and have fun. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not F-Class or slow fire high power, however much you want to debate it.

Jay you are correct. But please keep in mind that there are many shooting disciplines, I am not trying to debate anything. ET"s are just one more form of shooting, I am not saying that ET's are for everyone and everywhere nor that it should or can replace F-Class it never will. I also enjoy shooting formats that employ a delay and always will. You guys need to keep an open mind and remember the part about enjoying our sport.

 

[500Stroker]

And just shoot it at a big black blob instead of at an official F Class target. Call it fast big black blob class?

DosXX apparently you have not been to one of our ET scored matches. The paper target that we actually shoot at is the official NRA, MR-1, F-Class 600 yard target. The "black blog" that you refereed to is an electronically derived image of the NRA target. When you get a chance try it you probably get hooked on it.

 

[Bindi2]

F/C in Australia is shot on the same targets as TR (sling, V bull centre with a 1/2 MOA X ring inside that ) using same time, there is no delay only a maximum. Different sized aim mark velcroed on for each range.