Not Impressed
- Thread starter bdale
- Start date
Done this with another shooter as well same day same ammo.I have heard of a few 455s with excessive headspace also,,then there is the firing pin that is oversized to work with 22LR and 17 HMR,,
there are about 20 things to do to fine tune a 455 22LR ,,and once done most are at least MOA shooters and some better than that,,IMO they dont shoot as good on average out of the box as the 452 Model,,but they are the bolt action version of the 10-22 in aftermarket upgrades,,
djdillion at RFC is the guru 455 tuner,,for a few dollars he can usually make a tack driver out of a 455,,
there are about 20 things to do to fine tune a 455 22LR ,,and once done most are at least MOA shooters and some better than that,,IMO they dont shoot as good on average out of the box as the 452 Model,,but they are the bolt action version of the 10-22 in aftermarket upgrades,,
djdillion at RFC is the guru 455 tuner,,for a few dollars he can usually make a tack driver out of a 455,,
No evidence to prove it, but I've read that CZ quality took a bad turn in the last few years. At least that's what I've read about their bolt acion rimfires. People who are way more into the subject than I will swear that the 452 and 453 are better designed and built than the 455.
Ten+ years ago CZ's were a screaming deal. Seems now they're in the "worth the money" category.
Ten+ years ago CZ's were a screaming deal. Seems now they're in the "worth the money" category.
I have the same rifle and just the same have tested maybe 15 different ammo types. My test target came that came with the rifle was a sub MOA and shot with RWS R50. I haven't tried the R50 yet but the the cheaper RWS target is shooting 1/2 '' at 50 yds pretty consistently. A lot of the ammo I have tried shoots horrible groups at 50 yds.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
I don't know about the current CZ rimfires but the ones I bought a few years ago had some kind of impenetrable GUNK in them from the factory. Had to scrub the living bejeesus out of the bore before it looked good. You won't get down to bare metal with a few patches and a couple brushings. If the current ones are the same and you haven't cleaned it extremely thorough when new, it's going to shoot like crap. In any event, I would borescope it to make sure it's clean.
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
bdale,
Not to sound like I'm knocking CZ's, but if you want an accurate shooting rimfire rifle, buy an Anschutz and don't look back. Before I got out of the Rimfire scene and competition, I never came across any CZ that could outshoot my Anschutz and it was a 64 series Anschutz at that. Guess its all in what you are trying to accomplish. Good luck finding what you seek.
Alex
Not to sound like I'm knocking CZ's, but if you want an accurate shooting rimfire rifle, buy an Anschutz and don't look back. Before I got out of the Rimfire scene and competition, I never came across any CZ that could outshoot my Anschutz and it was a 64 series Anschutz at that. Guess its all in what you are trying to accomplish. Good luck finding what you seek.
Alex
bdale
NRA Life Member
Yeah as I posted earlier two guns on my to get list are a 1903 Anschutz and a 410 double barrel shotgun
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
After reading this sthrea, I got real interested in the mention of Mossberg 144LSB's.
I've had one since early 80's and it is a fun gun.
However, the trigger sucks!
What can be done to this gun to improve accuracy and the trigger in particular.
I've had one since early 80's and it is a fun gun.
However, the trigger sucks!
What can be done to this gun to improve accuracy and the trigger in particular.
With you dispersion being mostly vertical it tends to point to either ammo (velocity inconsistency), or bedding. But it could also still be wind, if the terrain is situated in a way to cause an up draft or if your shooting into the wind that is gusting. From my experience a 1 to 2 mph full value wind will move a 1060 (ish) FPS match 22lr style bullet about 0.100" to 0.125" at 100 yards. So as said above you really need to keep an eye on the wind situation, not only velocity but the vector is very important all while keeping in mind how the wind is entering your shooting area. Wind that has to come threw trees or around a structure will be turbulent and may not be well represented on your wind flags, in the mirage, or on the vegetation. Just be mindful of what all effects the winds path and velocity.
Another thing you may want to check is the ignition system of the rifle. Disassemble the bolt and verify that the firing pin and spring is moving freely inside the bolt body. Also check that the trigger sear is clean and not getting fouled when it is releasing the firing pin. These things can cause inconsistent ignition, which can show up as vertical on the target.
Basically what you are describing is an inconsistency from shot to shot, something changing. Which can be the things I mentioned above, to include the aforementioned bedding problems. One other thing to check is that your action screws are not too long (bottoming out in the action). These are just a few ideas to check.
Best of luck...
Another thing you may want to check is the ignition system of the rifle. Disassemble the bolt and verify that the firing pin and spring is moving freely inside the bolt body. Also check that the trigger sear is clean and not getting fouled when it is releasing the firing pin. These things can cause inconsistent ignition, which can show up as vertical on the target.
Basically what you are describing is an inconsistency from shot to shot, something changing. Which can be the things I mentioned above, to include the aforementioned bedding problems. One other thing to check is that your action screws are not too long (bottoming out in the action). These are just a few ideas to check.
Best of luck...
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes...at $4-6K (or more). I think we're talking about a slightly different market here.
I bought the CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer for the specific purpose of shooting more regularly during the winter months as a training aid for F-TR. I could have had a custom .22lr built by the same company that builds my F-TR rifles...again, for between $4-5K. I could not bring myself to drop that kind of $$$ on a training rifle. So far, I have been satisfied with the performance of the 455 VPT. Because the VPT comes with a Manners T4 stock, the feel is relatively close to my F-TR rifles. At 50 yd, I have no trouble getting ~0.5" precision for 5-shot groups with 2 or 3 different types of ammunition (Eley Match, Lapua Center-X, Wolf-MT. Occasionally, groups have been in the 0.35" range, but the norm is about half an inch at 50 yd with the better ammunition types I have tried. At 100 yd, it has an occasional problem with vertical that I'm convinced is a bedding issue, because the vertical shifts happen, then stay that way for a number of shots, and they simply don't match the velocities I'm measuring. The QC on mine is generally "OK", although the factory bedding job isn't the greatest I've ever seen. However, for what it is, I am fully satisfied with the purchase.
The 455 is not a competition rifle by any stretch of the imagination. If someone buys it with that intent, they will most likely be sorely dissatisfied. That is not to say there may be some that routinely shoot much better than the ~ 0.5" at 50 yd number I gave above, but they would be the exception, rather than the rule. The precision can certainly be improved with an aftermarket trigger, new barrel, bedding job, striker (firing pin) work, etc. etc., etc. But in the end, you may spend a lot of $$$. In a worst-case scenario, you might potentially spend as much or more than it would have cost you to buy an entry-level rimfire match rifle to begin with, and it still may not have the precision of a decent match rifle. That's simply not the market they were designed for. If you get a "good shooter", the 455 typically seems to group in the 0.5" range for 5-shot groups at 50 yd with preferred match ammunition. A "poor shooter" might group around the 1.0" range (or larger) for 5-shots at 50 yd. For many, 0.5" at 50 yd is sufficient precision for plinking, [fun] target shooting, critter eradication, etc.
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LOL - I almost put it on the list. Good call.
During the mid 1990's several buddies and I shot 100 yard rimfire benchrest every Sunday for several years straight. Guns ranged from an Anschutz to a Savage Model 19 with several guns in between. For whatever reason, every gun shot best with cheapo Federal Lightning ammo. It didn't matter how much we spent on "target" or "match" ammunition, those lousy Lightnings always produced the tightest groups.
My point: Don't assume inexpensive or hunting style ammunition won't shoot well in your gun. Give every type and brand of ammo a try.
My point: Don't assume inexpensive or hunting style ammunition won't shoot well in your gun. Give every type and brand of ammo a try.
Just picked up a Rem mdl 37 today.. it loves Federal Auto Match!
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
Bought a few rimfires lately,some old Mossbergs a 46MB and a 144. Also bought a CZ455 Varmint in 22LR. After several trips to the range and trying several types of top tier ammo I'm thoroughly disappointed with this CZ, had heard a lot of good things about these rifles. My old Mossbergs will consistently shoot under this CZ with peep sights at 50 yards and the CZ wears a 36 power Weaver target scope. In its defense I will say that on a couple occasions and after about 400 rounds it has managed a couple 1/2 inch groups only a couple
Bdale,
I guess I am lucky with mine, it seems to be a shooter. I checked barrel free floating, retorqued all the screws, Changed trigger spring. My 455 is picky on how you hold the gun. I was seeing vertical in my groups also. I shoot off bi-pods with rear bag. I have to hold this gun tight to get it to shoot. A friend of mine has a 455 varmint that shoots like mine. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/cz-455-out-today.3920266/
Good luck
Mark
bdale
NRA Life Member
Funny you mention the hold, I was experimenting with mine letting it sort of free recoil and holding tight and mine also likes to be held tight. Have several more types of ammo due in the next couple days to do some more testing. I'm a member here at Piedmont you need to get back down here and shoot
Cool rifle. Photos?
One found me that had been customized by Al Freeland but was hardly shot. It has a replacement prone stock in Freeland's style, his forearm pressure tuner, a first model Lyman Target Spot, and a CC Johnson barrel that was slated for other rifles Al was building. Al was one of a few gunsmiths, if not the only, that Johnson allowed to hang his barrels.
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
Funny you mention the hold, I was experimenting with mine letting it sort of free recoil and holding tight and mine also likes to be held tight. Have several more types of ammo due in the next couple days to do some more testing. I'm a member here at Piedmont you need to get back down here and shoot
I have been into rimfire long range for about a year. I need to get back into centerfire long range.
Mark
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