Need some voices of experience, 30-06 vs. 30-06 AI

[Mulligan]

My '06AI is very accurate and launches a 180AB at 2980, that is a bit speedier than the std '06 was. Just saying.
CW

 

[SheepDog]

Yes, if a couple of hundred fps is important to your shooting the AI is one way to achieve it. With the added powder and possible higher pressures comes wear too, though it might not be important depending on your style of shooting. The 3006 is a very good cartridge to begin with for all North American game within "normal" hunting ranges. I have never seen a need for the added "benefits" of the AI but my shooting is limited to 600 yards on paper and not over 200 yards on game.

 

[Mulligan]

Yes, if a couple of hundred fps is important to your shooting the AI is one way to achieve it. With the added powder and possible higher pressures comes wear too, though it might not be important depending on your style of shooting. The 3006 is a very good cartridge to begin with for all North American game within "normal" hunting ranges. I have never seen a need for the added "benefits" of the AI but my shooting is limited to 600 yards on paper and not over 200 yards on game.

Ethical hunting ranges, how 'bout that!
More than a few folks could learn a bit from your example.
CW

 

[msinc]

I had a 30-06 and it would kill a grizzly...I made it a 30-06AI and it will still kill a grizzly. I don't trim the cases as much and the bullet flies a little faster. It is very accurate...probably more because of the Krieger barrel than the cartridge.
In my experience the biggest thing about the 30-06AI is that you had better make or have made a headspace gauge to positively and properly measure case headspace length after sizing. It's one thing to fireform factory 06 ammo that is at least {or should be anyways} .004" longer than the chamber you have...it gets to be another when you have all this formed brass and go to resize it. There is no commercial ready made available gauge to measure the headspace length...it has to be made. It's not that big of a deal if you have the chambering reamer. I used that to cut one from my Stoney Point collars. I know a lot of guys dismiss this and will say they have no problems. I am the type of guy that has to KNOW what my headspace is because I have seen how bad it can get when you are believing you "got no problems." Good luck.

 

[wboggs]

My '06AI is very accurate and launches a 180AB at 2980, that is a bit speedier than the std '06 was. Just saying.
CW

2980 with a standard length barrel? You are running very high pressures.

 

[Shaggy357]

2980 with a standard length barrel? You are running very high pressures.

Was wondering what powder/primer combo made that possible, myself. Guess I am not the onliest one scratching my balding head.

 

[Mulligan]

2980 with a standard length barrel? You are running very high pressures.

26" Lilja 3 grove

 

[Mulligan]

Was wondering what powder/primer combo made that possible, myself. Guess I am not the onliest one scratching my balding head.

I am using 59.8 grs of H4350, Fed 210 M primer and Nosler 180 AB
CW

 

[wboggs]

I am using 59.8 grs of H4350, Fed 210 M primer and Nosler 180 AB
CW

I do not doubt your word. I would like someone with Quick Loads to run your load. You either have an extreme outlier of physics in you barrel load combo or you are running very high pressures. There is very little gain in 30-06 Ack. case capacity. I used one for over 20 years and the only load in a 26" barrel that would break 2900 with win cases and 180 NBT used the old H205 and pressures were high with brass flowing in the ejector, etc.
It was a killer and I took a couple hundred deer with it.
I

 

[Mulligan]

I do not doubt your word. I would like someone with Quick Loads to run your load. You either have an extreme outlier of physics in you barrel load combo or you are running very high pressures. There is very little gain in 30-06 Ack. case capacity. I used one for over 20 years and the only load in a 26" barrel that would break 2900 with win cases and 180 NBT used the old H205 and pressures were high with brass flowing in the ejector, etc.
It was a killer and I took a couple hundred deer with it.
I

No worries
I use Lapua brass, primer pockets are still great! During ladder testing I took it up to 60.0. At 60 it showed a slight ejecter mark.
The Nosler #7 loading manual shows a velocity of 2985 with 62.0 grs of RL-22. I'm right in the ballpark.
CW

 

[Mulligan]

i will try RL-16 later this spring....
CW

 

[Shaggy357]

I am using 59.8 grs of H4350, Fed 210 M primer and Nosler 180 AB
CW

H4350 is on my list to try, as is Rel 22. I had my -06AI built on a Mauser action when I still lived near my folks and little brother. I went AI because I didn't want my brother attempting to use my reloads in his gun. I was trying to get a Nosler 165 going 3000. AI was the only way to get there...and I have been close, but not yet reached that goal...safely that is. I will keep trying. Thanks for the info.

Steve

 

[Mulligan]

H4350 is on my list to try, as is Rel 22. I had my -06AI built on a Mauser action when I still lived near my folks and little brother. I went AI because I didn't want my brother attempting to use my reloads in his gun. I was trying to get a Nosler 165 going 3000. AI was the only way to get there...and I have been close, but not yet reached that goal...safely that is. I will keep trying. Thanks for the info.

Steve

Sierra loading manual recommends H4831SC with the 165's

 

[pitbull]

Well I can and sometimes can get very sarcastic and I feel very sarcastic right now but I am going to control myself and tell you that my comment was constructive then you fired back some bunch of Bull Sh** and then I made the sarcastic ,...that's funny comment! I still stand by my comment! your one of the very few that have ever bad mouthed a AI improved cartridge. Don't push it!... I am done with the thread unless you push it further,...let it go, it's my opinion and that won't change! Have a nice holiday
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

Are we digging up ancient threads again?…
Wayne

 

[Preacher]

Well I can and sometimes can get very sarcastic and I feel very sarcastic right now but I am going to control myself and tell you that my comment was constructive then you fired back some bunch of Bull Sh** and then I made the sarcastic ,...that's funny comment! I still stand by my comment! your one of the very few that have ever bad mouthed a AI improved cartridge. Don't push it!... I am done with the thread unless you push it further,...let it go, it's my opinion and that won't change! Have a nice holiday
Wayne.

You did good mentioning what you did. Love ALL my Ackleys, including the new 8mm 06 AI shooting 200 grain Nosler CC's....

 

[ebb]

I like the idea of brass not growing and lasting longer, But 50 FPS gain is nothing. To me the real put off is having to spend $200 on a set of dies instead of $30. I like the idea but in the real world I don't think it is worth it, especially if it is a hunting rifle .

 

[358WCF]

A necro thread gets new life? Here's my .02c.

My experience has been nothing but positive with a 30-06 Ackley. It came to me as a used trade about 35 years ago with some brass & a set of Bonanza BR dies for less $$ than a bare action cost at the time. It's an ugly stick, with a poorly cold blued Douglas barrel at 26". Being an old curmudgeon, I dont believe the current trend of ultra short barrel, super lightweight rifles is a particularly great idea, but whatever... Barrel length is free horsepower. I run all of my Ackleys on the warm side. They just seem to shoot better there. I'm sure the conservative SAAMI max for the old 06 has been left somewhere in the dust.

With my more accurate loads, I have been able to safely reach c.3500fps with 125s, c.3300fps with 150s, c.3100fps with 168s, & c. 3050 with 180s. Velocities have been up to 100fps faster with each bullet weight but the rifle shoots better backed down a little.

Brass life is good. I finally retired the last of the original S&W brand brass that came with the rifle last year. I have some older WW brass that's been fired 10-12 times. There's some Lapua 06 waiting on the shelf, but at this rate I may not live long enough to burn up all of the WW in the closet.

RL17 & RL26 are possibly the best powders in my testing so far, but the 4350s & 4831s also have a place as do N150, & N160.

 

[mauser284]

I know this is an old thread.

I have not competed in F-Open since before Covid-19 lockdowns.

I ran into a guy a few years back shooting a fast twist long barrel in 30-06AI. If I remember correctly he was shooting 190gr. SMK's and getting 2900fps. I want to say the barrel was between 29" and 32" in length and I think he was using 1:9 or 1:8 twist.

it was because of him Ipurchased 1:8 barrels for my own use with 30 cal cartridges. He told me his load and such but I can not remember it now. I was campaigning a straigt 284Win at the time.

If I had heard him spewing these things online I might have questioned his numbers but I competed against him and watched him shoot. I had no reason to think the guy was buffing his numbers!

I amnot a fan of AI cartridges but I think the extended case life is very real and I think it has been well established that you can expect at least 100fps or more with AI cartridges. I think the bigest issue is having enough twist and long enough barrel and an open mind on powder selection to get the most you ca out of AI cartridges!

With all of the fantastic monolithics today and old school A-Frames and Partition bullets you can go lighter and get more velocity than ever and still have devasting effects on game. You can also go heavier and again have a little bitm ore speed if you are smart and adventurious with powder selection! You need to think of an AI as a magnum cartridge and choose bullets, powder and primers inline with a magnum.

 

[wboggs]

I know this is an old thread.

I have not competed in F-Open since before Covid-19 lockdowns.

I ran into a guy a few years back shooting a fast twist long barrel in 30-06AI. If I remember correctly he was shooting 190gr. SMK's and getting 2900fps. I want to say the barrel was between 29" and 32" in length and I think he was using 1:9 or 1:8 twist.

it was because of him Ipurchased 1:8 barrels for my own use with 30 cal cartridges. He told me his load and such but I can not remember it now. I was campaigning a straigt 284Win at the time.

If I had heard him spewing these things online I might have questioned his numbers but I competed against him and watched him shoot. I had no reason to think the guy was buffing his numbers!

I amnot a fan of AI cartridges but I think the extended case life is very real and I think it has been well established that you can expect at least 100fps or more with AI cartridges. I think the bigest issue is having enough twist and long enough barrel and an open mind on powder selection to get the most you ca out of AI cartridges!

With all of the fantastic monolithics today and old school A-Frames and Partition bullets you can go lighter and get more velocity than ever and still have devasting effects on game. You can also go heavier and again have a little bitm ore speed if you are smart and adventurious with powder selection! You need to think of an AI as a magnum cartridge and choose bullets, powder and primers inline with a magnum.

It is my impression that monolithics, A-Frames, partitions are hunting bullets that are ill-suited for target shooting. Few, if any, will carry a hunting rifle with a 30-32 " barrel for another 100 fos which will be less than that at the target.
There is no way the small increase in the AI case capacity will make the 30-06 Ackley even close to something like the .300 WSM in competition using equal pressures, suitable powders, barrel lengths, bullets, etc.
There is less trimming and maybe better case life but those are the major benefits.