Mid range AR tactical, who's tried it ?

[weedhopper]

Yeah it's like years ago when only a few of us would shoot F class and some people said it's just a fad. This class could blow up and be the next big thing. I think it's great the NRA came up with the class .

 

[XTR]

I think it will remain a "get them to come play" match.

Personally, I'd never consider it. More likely that I'll sling up and shoot service rifle than play this game. That said, I'm happy to see it. It's a nice sort of a "gateway drug".

 

[marty dabney]

ive been looking for one of these matches for my son and I to shoot. looks like a pretty inexpensive way to get people shooting

 

[dcali]

I think it will remain a "get them to come play" match.

Personally, I'd never consider it. More likely that I'll sling up and shoot service rifle than play this game. That said, I'm happy to see it. It's a nice sort of a "gateway drug".

I agree. I'm not interested. But I already shoot service rifle. For someone who doesn't, shooting "service rifle light" without all the intimidating gear and learning curve is probably a very attractive proposition. I hope it does well.

 

[Nowhere Man]

As one who is running an F-Class match, I'd welcome these shooters to join us with open arms. I just wish the NRA would be less concerned over the scope power, barrel length and trigger pull. That just puts more burden on the officials.

Dave

 

[XTR]

As one who is running an F-Class match, I'd welcome these shooters to join us with open arms. I just wish the NRA would be less concerned over the scope power, barrel length and trigger pull. That just puts more burden on the officials.

Dave

In both this class and in the optics for SR the NRA/CMP missed the 10-ring with the rules as written. I'm betting that comes from the people on the committees that made the rules not having any idea of what is out there in the world of optics and conceding to allow glass.

In this class, just like SR the rule would have been great 7 or 10 yrs ago, but in the interim the standard for magnification in both classes of scope here has gone up from what is allowed. Almost all of the scope manufacturers that make high quality scopes have a 25ish-x top of the line and a 14ish-x one step down. The 12x scopes out there are mostly hunting designs that haven't sen changes in forever.

Same in SR, the 4.5x /35MM limit is pretty obviously set by the ACOG, but all the AR style scopes out there left 4x for 6x or even 8x.

Oh well, for me it's someting at least. At 56 I'm finally going to give SR a run this yr. I'm ordering a scope from the Leupy Custom shop for my SR.

 

[Nowhere Man]

When you mentioned the CMP, it made me wonder if the NRA is copying the CMP's Rimfire Sporter match were competitors are urged to compete with off the shelf plinking .22's like the Ruger 10/22?

Does the NRA expect off the shelf AR's to hit anything at 600 yards?

 

[DE-F-Open]

Bridgeville added this rifle to its Mid-Range program last year. We had several folks come out and try it and several more have said they intend to do so this year. We integrate them on the line right alongside of F-Class and sling shooters, trying to keep the three types of rifles together. They shoot on "sling targets" so that makes it more manageable. Folks seem to like it and we are seeing folks who have never competed in any form of High Power competition before come out to try their hand. Most importantly, they are coming back and they seem to be enjoying competing against each other and not having to worry about either the F-Class shooters or the conventional sling shooters (or their gear).

Both the conventional sling shooters and the F-Class shooters seem to enjoy having these new folks on the line and are very quick to help the "newbies" learn the ropes. Of course, the sling shooters are trying to get them to convert to their game and some of the F-Class shooters are hoping that these new folks will eventually join our ranks... lots of fun. So far, these new folks seem content simply shooting with each other

Better that they shoot and learn than not shoot (or learn) at all.

John

 

[XTR]

When you mentioned the CMP, it made me wonder if the NRA is copying the CMP's Rimfire Sporter match were competitors are urged to compete with off the shelf plinking .22's like the Ruger 10/22?

Does the NRA expect off the shelf AR's to hit anything at 600 yards?

I have written somewhere that I don't think that this class will ever evolve from provisional, and that is completely OK. As John wrote above, it is getting people out on the line.

Think about it. It's shooting from a supported position at a sling rifle target. Even an off the shelf AR can hit a 12" 10-ring (2MOA) some of the time, and that's the point. Make it fun. The F class target, and associated scores, would be somewhat daunting to a new competition shooter with a less than optimized rifle.

As the rules stand right now any chambering in a gas gun is good to go. That's not a formula that works with hard core competitors. They eventually all end up running the same wind beating chambering. For an example tale a look at F-Open. The rules in F-Open say anything 35 cal or less, but 90%+ of the F-Open shooters are running some form of the 284, the 280, and a few 7Rsaums. The same thing would happen here if the rules as written were codified into a legitimate class.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I have written somewhere that I don't think that this class will ever evolve from provisional, and that is completely OK. As John wrote above, it is getting people out on the line.

Think about it. It's shooting from a supported position at a sling rifle target. Even an off the shelf AR can hit a 12" 10-ring (2MOA) some of the time, and that's the point. Make it fun. The F class target, and associated scores, would be somewhat daunting to a new competition shooter with a less than optimized rifle.

As the rules stand right now any chambering in a gas gun is good to go. That's not a formula that works with hard core competitors. They eventually all end up running the same wind beating chambering. For an example tale a look at F-Open. The rules in F-Open say anything 35 cal or less, but 90%+ of the F-Open shooters are running some form of the 284, the 280, and a few 7Rsaums. The same thing would happen here if the rules as written were codified into a legitimate class.

I don't think the equipment investors will always drive the bus. I'll I've seen so far are .223s on the line in the new discipline, and that's all I would bring.

I may acquire a new rifle at about $1000 or so and enjoy a few matches just to ring it out and improve wind reading. Fun? Yes. Useful? yes. Invest thousands? No.

 

[XTR]

It is a provisional class shooting at HP targets with bipods. It's the bunny hill. Most serious competitors are not going to invest in that game yet.

Looking at what I have invested in F-TR equipment, if this was to be my chosen class, and I was going to travel to play, I'd build whatever was legal and gave me an advantage. (probably some kind of 6mm chambering)

In F-TR there are a lot of folks that are happy coming out and shooting with their factory Savage or Remington 308, they participate; then there are those who will and do find everything within the rules to improve their game, spend the $$ as necessary and spend the $$ and range time to hone their skill to higher levels, they compete.

When I'm traveling 800 or 1800 miles to compete the equipment is not a major cost. If I'm doing that I am not going to carry a rifle that I know ahead of time I can use for an alibi.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I see the rules only allow optics up to 12X. What are you doing if they show up with higher power scopes?

 

[XTR]

It is up to the MD, but if it is a newbie shooter in a provisional class like this i'll bet they tell him not to turn it above 12.

 

[memilanuk]

Well, for one, its a provisional class... so no one really cares *that* much. If they do... I believe in other venues (Hunter BR, maybe?) the match director would make them put some tape on the power ring, to make it a little less easy to 'accidentally' adjust.

 

[Heman]

I do exactly what Monte said. Don't turn it above 12x, if they do then they won't be eligible for the new Corvette and Millions of dollars we give away every match.......

 

[Archer]

I see the rules only allow optics up to 12X. What are you doing if they show up with higher power scopes?

Many match directors are taping the power ring in place before the match starts...they will also spot check as your equipment moves to the line...

 

[Ned Ludd]

Early on, the idea of this match was floated around at several venues, including here at A.S. My recollection is that the original idea was a max of 14X or 15X, something like that. Yet they ended up going with 12X, which wasn't the greatest decision, IMO. Who makes a decent competition scope that has an upper mag of 12X? The answer is obvious and necessitates people showing up at the line with higher maximum magnification scopes (> 12X) rather than be forced to use something well under the limit such as a 10X in order to buy a decent optic. This pretty much forces match directors to check, use tape on the mag ring, etc. Not so smart, but as long as most match directors are doing this, it should work out ok for now. If this match style really catches on, they're going to have to address this issue again at some future date.

 

[WindSurgeon]

Might be just what I need to brush off my AR15 in 5.56. I could not find where the rules state that you have to use a fully loaded magazine, so I would just stick with my single load follower and load 90 gr for it. Am I missing something?

The 20" barrel rule will require a new barrel on my upper or a new upper.

 

[Archer]

Might be just what I need to brush off my AR15 in 5.56. I could not find where the rules state that you have to use a fully loaded magazine, so I would just stick with my single load follower and load 90 gr for it. Am I missing something?

The 20" barrel rule will require a new barrel on my upper or a new upper.

Rule 3.3.3 G reads as follows...

Magazine – Standard 10-, 20-, or 30-round magazines must be used. Reduced capacity magazines and “sleds” are prohibited. Magazine may not be used for support and may not touch the ground during firing or recoil.

So, that would not allow your single loading of your 90 grain ammo (unless you can keep it magazine length). This configuration of competition is to simulate tactical firing as stated in rule 3.3.3 K:

Interpretive Intent – It is the intent of this rule that this semi-automatic rifle and the equipment used therewith most closely resemble the semi-automatic tactical rifles and equipment issued to and sometimes used by U.S. Military and U.S. Law Enforcement in tactical situations at the distances utilized in standard NRA Mid-Range Prone competition. This is not meant to be another form of F-Class competition. Rifles and equipment designed specifically for competitive shooting applications are generally outside the spirit and intent of this rule.

 

[Ned Ludd]

With the right loads and possibly some adjustments to the mag lip, it might be possible to get the Berger 80.5s loaded so that they will reliably feed from a mag. I have a very good load for a .223 F-TR bolt rifle that will feed from AICS mags, but I haven't tried it in my Magpul (AR) mags as yet. I can't imagine a load with the 90s would work very well. They would have to be sunk so far down in the case you'd be giving up a lot of velocity and most, if not all, of their ballistic advantage.

Although I expect many participating in this discipline will seek every possible advantage, trying to shoot the 90s seems outside the intent/spirit of this type of competition as pointed out in the ruling as posted above by Archer. Arguably, even loading the 80.5s would fall into the same category, although I expect it would be much easier to successfully accomplish. The rifle in which I shoot the 80.5 mentioned above also happens to shoot extremely well with the FGMM 77 commercial load. Having shot both loads many times at 300-600 yd, I can tell you there is a night and day difference in wind deflection just by moving up to the 80.5 bullet. When the wind comes up, shooting the 77s at 600 yd is more like shooting a precision shotgun.