308 Win for P-dogs

[DeadWoodDan]

I found a few threads addressing this, but looking at specific my specific build. Shooting a Sav. M12FTR on a BR M12 stock. So just a 1:12 twist s.s. heavy 30" barrell.

Looking for bullets that can be used between 300-500yds (or farther). Just working with my comfort zone at this time. Want something that will have the "splatter" factor not just put a hole in a critter. Have read the 125TNT is thin jacket so I have contacted Speer to see what they say. Not sure if the Hornady 110gr ballistic tip will hold up in windy situations either. Just looking for some thoughts. Thanks!!

Plan on taking my Ruger RAR .17HMR and AR-15 .223 on 20" SS for closer shots. I have the M12 and though it may be good to try for farther targets than what I'm good at with the .223.

 

[GrocMax]

110vmax at 4000FPS from a 12tw 300 winmag is fun. Works more splattacularly at 250yds and farther for some reason. 110 in a 308 ought to work fine.

Worrying about .100 of BC for PD's is irrelevant in my mind, a miss of 4" is a miss. Don't really know what the wind is till the first shot anyways, more important is seeing the miss, heavy gun, managed recoil, never losing target sight.

 

[284winner]

Not sure about the 12 twist barrel. I took a 308 out to SD on a prairie dog shoot some years ago but mine had a 10 twist. I used 185 Berger's and only intended on using it around 800- 1000+. I suspect the 155 would be great from a 12 twist. Talking about a 110 bullet from a 308 is something you may regret at 500 + yards in the SD winds. That bullet suffers from a very poor ballistic coefficient that is something you'll probably need out there. Them dogs are pretty small so even a 110 won't really give you the blow up effect that the smaller 6mm or smaller bullets will. I think I'd stick with a heavier bullet for the 308 if it's gonna be your long range gun for the trip. From 300-500 you'd be ok with a 110. Beyond 500 you'll certainly notice the winds effect on the bullet. That gun you have is probably suited well for the 155 bullets. My 308 with the 185 Berger's did extremely well in higher winds. Even at 2700+ fps, wind had less effect than I thought it would at 1000 yards. I was rather impressed by the 308 and it's performance at those ranges. Especially in the winds we experienced. It's a very capable cartridge that's really not given the credit it deserves by alot people.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

308 with 110 Vmax is splattacular on ground squirrels. I've shot them to 300 with great result (limit of my hunting area - don't have a longer place to shoot critters).

Be forewarned, they do have the BC of a ping-pong ball.

 

[AckleymanII]

even with a muzzle break, the 308 will beat your brains out on p. dogs. One of the great joys that you have mentioned is the splat factor. With the recoil of the 308, you are going to see NOTHING! There are much better options, at least something were you can see your hits so you know the hold over and drop for the next shot instead of just guessing all the time.

My hunting partner was ready to throw a 40X in 220 swift out of the truck because he could not spot his hits, and I was making hits every shot with a loud plop with a 243 ai with a muzzle break. ON the next trip, he had muzzle breaks on every rifle he carried. If you can't see your hits, might as well stay at home.

 

[DeadWoodDan]

I'm not sold on the lighter bullets either. With that said purpose of taking this caliber is to make shots at longer distance. I should add this will be my first trip so all new to me, but the group I was invited with has been going for years.

I would want the best of both worlds and hoping to put them down and not let them go into the hole and then die. Not being very educated what if any difference between a ballistic tip and HP? I guess I'm trying to get a feeling on weight and style of bullet to use.

 

[284winner]

even with a muzzle break, the 308 will beat your brains out on p. dogs. One of the great joys that you have mentioned is the splat factor. With the recoil of the 308, you are going to see NOTHING! There are much better options, at least something were you can see your hits so you know the hold over and drop for the next shot instead of just guessing all the time.

My hunting partner was ready to throw a 40X in 220 swift out of the truck because he could not spot his hits, and I was making hits every shot with a loud plop with a 243 ai with a muzzle break. ON the next trip, he had muzzle breaks on every rifle he carried. If you can't see your hits, might as well stay at home.

I had to run a brake on my 308 and still never saw impacts unless the range was beyond 600 yards. Certainly wasn't unpleasant but not quite able to see impacts at closer ranges. Keep in mind tho with 185s this was the case. Not sure about 155s. Without the brake...forget it.

 

[markT]

Ackleyman II is correct. That gun will beat you to death.
I started out with a 223 with a standard factory stock. I couldn't see my hits.
I finally bought a sniper stock and added weights.. Now I have those heavy stocks on all 6 rifles from 223 to 6 BR and 243.
Muzzle breaks.. sorry guys but all that blow back just is heck on ones ears. Trying save what I have left..
I move back 15 or 20 yards from my partner when he shoots his rifle with the MB.

 

[AckleymanII]

Mark, I wear ear plugs and the electronic ear muffs, works great while you hear at normal levels. Short barrel 6 BR's and 243's will kill your ears.

 

[johnfred1965]

long range and 308 varmint bullets are almost mutually exclusive! If you have 3-400yds covered with your 223, I'd go with the heavier bullets for the 308. I never tire of telling about my buddy shooting his 308 in SD. We lased one at 750yds and with Black Hills match 168's (his preferred and well tested ammo) he dialed his come-ups and sniped it dead center in the chest on the first shot! I about dropped my binos.

I prefer the 155gr Amax for target shooting my 308, a little more velocity and range, it might be what you are looking for in a long range PD load.

 

[mikeinct]

Hey Dan, the 17HMR & the 223 in the AR are going to be fine for what you can do with those say to 150 & 300 yds max...The 12 twist 308 gives me pause..Can you get a different barrel for that Savage ?? I don't know how much time you have to put a new rig together on that action...Ask those guys in your group..Really how many shots are you going to try over 600 yards???Total # of rounds they think you will need for 5 days?? .Myself I'd be taking the rim-fire, a Tac 20 bolt gun, 6MMBR, Or a 6mmBRX & a 260AI..My last 243Win died at about 1200 rds down the tube..Benchrest type stocks, correct barrels w rate of twist etc. & Muzzle brakes are a nice touch on varmint rigs..+ear plugs + muffs .More later, mike in ct

 

[DeadWoodDan]

All,

It seems the more I think about this the more rational it seems to just leave the 308 at home. Being its on a Savage M12 action I should be able to put a 6mmBR in its place. Not sure if that goal is possible this year, but will most likely be my plan.

I don't see us shooting past 300yds, with the exception of one person in group who does take his 6mmBR. Just liked the idea of at least trying to shoot that far.

 

[284winner]

All,

It seems the more I think about this the more rational it seems to just leave the 308 at home. Being its on a Savage M12 action I should be able to put a 6mmBR in its place. Not sure if that goal is possible this year, but will most likely be my plan.

I don't see us shooting past 300yds, with the exception of one person in group who does take his 6mmBR. Just liked the idea of at least trying to shoot that far.

Well shooting at prairie dogs out to 800+ plus yards IS very likely. Whether you want to take those shots is your choice. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I've shot many prairie dogs at over 1000 yards that I watched drag themselves followed by there intestines back in there dens. They do not always die on the spot much like a ground hog. Just usually shots that are taken at 400 yards or closer are very explosive leaving the dog in pieces unable to walk off. Run 155s and take it. Look for shots at dogs out to those longest ranges and surprise yourself. That 308 is a very capable round with the correct bullet at impressive distances.

 

[mikeinct]

I'll tell you this Dan, I would not leave the 308 home. If you have a decent shooting load You can stretch that out to 400yds with no trouble Bullet type is almost no matter..When the wind huffs up you will be glad you lugged it along..I hope you get to try some 6 or 6.5 MM rifles while you are out west..Have a good trip. Enjoy & Learn..We expect a full report on your return..Travel safely... Mike in Ct

 

[STRSRLVR]

I've seen the 110's out of a 308 and they were pretty destructive out to 400 yards. I can tell you unless it's a heavy gun and has a good brake, the recoil will get annoying after a while but still fun to rotate in every now and then.

 

[AckleymanII]

What gets annoying real quick with a 308 is you have no idea where your bullet is hitting, and will not be able to see when you do connect, the rig needs to weigh 28 lbs in 308 with the addition of a muzzle break.

If you can't see where your bullets are impacting, why carry the rifle along? Things get even more frustrating if your spotter blinks when the gun goes off or his 10x binoculars does not allow him to see exact hits.

Your best bet with a 308 is to shoot off a lead sled with a 25 lb bag of bird shot on the sled or this:

 

[DeadWoodDan]

Thanks for the encouraging words. It still may go, if I get a load worked up and some more practice in; that is very reasonable at this point. Also, not 100% but thought I once weighed this and came out at 11.5.lbs without scope. Feels heavier than that with Savage BR stock and 30" SS heavy tube. I will say this, I don't notice the recoil shooting 168 SMK's. I'm sure there is enough spotters/shooters in my group of 6-8 that if I decide to take it out someone can help track impact.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[DogBuster]

Along with recoil.......don't over look ricochet when the heavy 308 boolit hits the ground.....

think 20 cal...............

 

[284winner]

When your out in the Dakotas and in prairie dog country, typically ricochets aren't a concern. Miles upon miles of open country. Obviously if cattle or livestock are around, it's a concern. When shooting a 308 at 1000 + yards, the trajectory is as much vertical as horizontal in its approach to the target. IMO it's really a minor concern in that type of situation BUT being mindful of it doesn't hurt.

 

[DogBuster]

we shoot in rather open country...but livestock & antelope are sometimes around....

had a 300 Win set up for p/dogs some time ago...175 SMK's...too much ricochet...

noise...recoil....powder consumption.....my largest caliber now for p-dogs is a 6BR...

of course now...20's are where its it for dogs.......