Forming 284 from 6.5x284 Lupua

[Rogmay]

I sure this has been asked a lot, but what's the latest greatest advise for what the title above says? Finished up a 284 build and have some 6.5x284 Lupua brass, 7mm Sinclair expanding mandrel, neck turner if needed. Used a reamer from PT&G that has a .317 neck a .231 FB and is marked 284win/norma/lupua. Also thoughts on fire forming are welcome! Now I'm ready for some advise from the pros, or who ever answers first! thank you in advance for your responces, and as always, have a safe and happy new year!

 

[sunnydog]

I sure this has been asked a lot, but what's the latest greatest advise for what the title above says? Finished up a 284 build and have some 6.5x284 Lupua brass, 7mm Sinclair expanding mandrel, neck turner if needed. Used a reamer from PT&G that has a .317 neck a .231 FB and is marked 284win/norma/lupua. Also thoughts on fire forming are welcome! Now I'm ready for some advise from the pros, or who ever answers first! thank you in advance for your responces, and as always, have a safe and happy new year!

 

[sunnydog]

Standard way. Use your neck expander, slow and carefully with good inside neck lubing. Load some relatively inexpensive 7mm bullets at a mid load, fire them. RESIZE WITH PROPER DIE. TRIM AS NECESSARY

 

[ShootDots]

Here is how I make .284 brass from 6.5 x 284.

1.) Run the 6.5 x 284 brass into your mandrel die. Back off the handle, lowering the ram, turn the case about 1/3rd turn and run it back up into the mandrel die. Do this about 3-4 times and you will feel the brass eventually go in nice and smooth. Now you KNOW you have moved all the imperfections to the OUTSIDE of the case neck wall.
2.) In your case, with a .317 neck, turn off about a shade over 1 thousandths to clean up the neck about 90 pct. At this time, you can inside and outside chamfer the case mouth.
3.) Anneal that NEW brass.
4.) Now run the brass back into the mandrel again, doing the same turn deal a time or 2.
5.) Thoroughly brush out the case neck
6.) Prime the brass
7.) NOW take a Q-Tip swab and swab out the inside of the case neck with Imperial Dry Neck Lube.
8.) Charge the case with powder and seat the bullet.

This has worked so well for me, that using this method I have found that the "Virgin" brass you just made will shoot just as well as fireformed brass. I have used it in BIG, as in State Championship Matches and cleaned the targets with excellent "X" counts.

 

[Rogmay]

I've never annealed before and not afraid to start, is that very important? Should I also look at turning into the shoulder a wee bit?

 

[ShootDots]

I've never annealed before and not afraid to start, is that very important? Should I also look at turning into the shoulder a wee bit?

When you set up the turning mandrel on your cutter, set it to go to a VERY slight amount past the neck / shoulder junction. Once you expand the case to 7mm, you will have the proper length of cut. You will see it cut maybe 1/32 or 1/16th inch past it. Trust me, you will see if you have gone a bit too far. There are pics on several older threads of a properly turned neck>>>look them up and you will see what it should look like. But if you set it up while it is in 6.5. x 284 form, then after you expand it, it will be correct. Annealing is very easy. I have a Benchsource Annealer. I put the "inner blue" flame so it is right in the middle of the neck and dim the lights. Then when I see the brass start to turn a red-orange, I set the timer it so it passes at that point. I did it for MANY, MANY years by hand til I grew older and wiser! LOL!! It is easy. Oh and annealing is VERY important in my humble opinion..

 

[Scott Harris]

When you set up the turning mandrel on your cutter, set it to go to a VERY slight amount past the neck / shoulder junction. Once you expand the case to 7mm, you will have the proper length of cut. You will see it cut maybe 1/32 or 1/16th inch past it. Trust me, you will see if you have gone a bit too far. There are pics on several older threads of a properly turned neck>>>look them up and you will see what it should look like. But if you set it up while it is in 6.5. x 284 form, then after you expand it, it will be correct. Annealing is very easy. I have a Benchsource Annealer. I put the "inner blue" flame so it is right in the middle of the neck and dim the lights. Then when I see the brass start to turn a red-orange, I set the timer it so it passes at that point. I did it for MANY, MANY years by hand til I grew older and wiser! LOL!! It is easy. Oh and annealing is VERY important in my humble opinion..

Adding to what Ben has said, when you neck up, a donut will be created from the thicker shoulder material turning into neck. So, neck turning is mandatory IMHO. Also, make sure the cutter you use has a 35 degree shoulder angle to match the brass. Then, turn until you are removing some material from the shoulder. With a cutter that has a 35 degree angle, it is very difficult to remove too much brass. Doing this permanently eliminates donuts...at least it has in my experience....and I have never had a neck separate from the brass even when I removed a "healthy" amount of material from the shoulder. That is the benefit of getting a cutter that matches the shoulder angle.

 

[FeMan]

Good advice. The only thing I would add is to note that the 284 likes a good deal of neck clearance; typically 4 thousandths minimum. I go for 5 thousandths just to be safe. With a 0.317 neck you will have to take a little more off on the initial turn. As Ben said, at least 1 thousandth and maybe 2.

 

[hoz53]

Good advice. The only thing I would add is to note that the 284 likes a good deal of neck clearance; typically 4 thousandths minimum. I go for 5 thousandths just to be safe. With a 0.317 neck you will have to take a little more off on the initial turn. As Ben said, at least 1 thousandth and maybe 2.

I wanna thank you guys for this also as I was wondering about buying 284 Norma or 6.5-284 Lapua.

 

[FeMan]

I wanna thank you guys for this also as I was wondering about buying 284 Norma or 6.5-284 Lapua.

The Norma brass I bought was considerably thicker and required considerable trimming (a couple thousandths as I recall). I have a 0.318 chamber and can get by with a light skim on the Lapua brass. I personally prefer the Lapua for that reason.

 

[hoz53]

The Norma brass I bought was considerably thicker and required considerable trimming (a couple thousandths as I recall). I have a 0.318 chamber and can get by with a light skim on the Lapua brass. I personally prefer the Lapua for that reason.

Thanks for that Info

 

[tinkerer]

I know I don't know squat about this level of forming, but I wonder why you don't start with 284 loaded ammo? Is factory ammo and brass that bad or something?

Larry
Tinkerer

 

[Rogmay]

I know I don't know squat about this level of forming, but I wonder why you don't start with 284 loaded ammo? Is factory ammo and brass that bad or something?

Larry
Tinkerer

For the limited amout of 600-1000yrd F-class shooting I've done and read about, every edge you can get I think helps! I made some 6.5 creedmoor brass out of some Lupua 308 brass and it shoots very consistent. Granted I have semi-decent components on my gun, I still like to have the best options I can afford! I feel Lupua helps to produce that over other brass I've used!

 

[Rogmay]

Here is how I make .284 brass from 6.5 x 284.

1.) Run the 6.5 x 284 brass into your mandrel die. Back off the handle, lowering the ram, turn the case about 1/3rd turn and run it back up into the mandrel die. Do this about 3-4 times and you will feel the brass eventually go in nice and smooth. Now you KNOW you have moved all the imperfections to the OUTSIDE of the case neck wall.
2.) In your case, with a .317 neck, turn off about a shade over 1 thousandths to clean up the neck about 90 pct. At this time, you can inside and outside chamfer the case mouth.
3.) Anneal that NEW brass.
4.) Now run the brass back into the mandrel again, doing the same turn deal a time or 2.
5.) Thoroughly brush out the case neck
6.) Prime the brass
7.) NOW take a Q-Tip swab and swab out the inside of the case neck with Imperial Dry Neck Lube.
8.) Charge the case with powder and seat the bullet.

This has worked so well for me, that using this method I have found that the "Virgin" brass you just made will shoot just as well as fireformed brass. I have used it in BIG, as in State Championship Matches and cleaned the targets with excellent "X" counts.

Shootdots, I ran my 200 cases through the expanding mandrel, getting ready to turn the necks, you mentioned taking off just a hair over .001 as did one of the other guys on this thread as well, am I taking .001 off the wall thickness or the overall OD of the neck? So far so good! Also, after a annealing, out of curiosity what is the purpose of running it through the mandrel again, not a big deal, just like to know, thanks again for all your help.

 

[ShootDots]

Shootdots, I ran my 200 cases through the expanding mandrel, getting ready to turn the necks, you mentioned taking off just a hair over .001 as did one of the other guys on this thread as well, am I taking .001 off the wall thickness or the overall OD of the neck? So far so good! Also, after a annealing, out of curiosity what is the purpose of running it through the mandrel again, not a big deal, just like to know, thanks again for all your help.

Take off 1 thousandths or so off the neck wall. That will clean it up about 80+ percent. The reason you want to re-run them thru the mandrel again is that annealing can and does cause metal movement. The mandrel will straighten out those necks that moved under the heat. This will all but eliminate any runout.

 

[Rogmay]

Awesome, thanks again for the advise, busy day ahead of me now! Want to get finished up, MT is supposed to be back into 40's by Wednesday and I'm anxious to shoot this new gun and brass!

Take off 1 thousandths or so off the neck wall. That will clean it up about 80+ percent. The reason you want to re-run them thru the mandrel again is that annealing can and does cause metal movement. The mandrel will straighten out those necks that moved under the heat. This will all but eliminate any runout.

 

[ShootDots]

Awesome, thanks again for the advise, busy day ahead of me now! Want to get finished up, MT is supposed to be back into 40's by Wednesday and I'm anxious to shoot this new gun and brass!

I hope everything works out perfectly for you!

 

[butchlambert]

Why waste bullets and barrel wear? I always fireform first with pistol powder and a wax plug.

 

[Killick]

I guess I'm late to this party but I would just add that the best lube I've found to use on the mandrel during necking up is WD-40, of all things. I tried Imperial sizing die wax (3 pulls) and lithium grease (5 pulls) but WD got me more cycles (8 pulls) before getting too stiff and you can bend the plastic tube up into the die rather than disassembling it. Anybody find a better lube? Is the answer to get a carbide mandrel?

 

[fguffey]

First I determine if I am forming or necking the case up and or down, if I am necking up and or down I do not find it necessary to form. That leaves me with sizing and firing. I skip fire forming.

F. Guffey